What's your belief and/or thoughts on religion? Here's mine.

[merlingfx]

Recent discussion in the forums recently, eluding to the Bible/Torah, specifically those which use it as a 'reference' got me wondering how many people in the THC Ministry believe in the Bible or Torah. I'm going to share my thoughts, beliefs and findings, and then I’d love to hear yours.

I was baptized Christian as a child, but never went to church but on a few rare occasions. This I believe is what has allowed me to look at the Bible without bias. When a few years ago I first began to really start thinking about philosophical questions of life and purpose, I began to take a look at religion. When I first skimmed through the bible I was amazed at how preposterous some of it sounds, and how some of it is most certainly false, yet so many people still believe without question it is truth.

First the creation of the universe, while we still don't know exactly how it went down, we know from 'light' to planet Earth's formation was certainly more then 7 days. If you want to bring up the argument of 'God days' being longer vs. Human days, consider this: If you did the math to figure out 'a God day' by taking the rough amount of time between 'light'/the beginning of the universe as far back as we can scientifically detect and the formation of our planet, you'd get a number in the BILLIONS of years (1 day in Genesis). If you then take the time from Earth's formation all the way to the first plant life (days 2 & 3 in Genesis), you get a number in only millions of years, and you clearly see this is a failed attempt to account for the inaccuracy of the Old Testament. This can be further demonstrated by the knowledge and factual evidence of the existence of dinosaurs and instead says 'God' made whales as the first life on Earth. Also we now know that we have evolved into human kind, and as such mankind certainly did not start with the creation of a single man and a single woman (Adam & Eve).

As to the 'great flood', we know there was NO great flood that covered the Earth as we would be able to see the uniform geological evidence of such an event that would have happened so 'recently' in Earth's history with today’s technology. It is more likely that this is an adaptation of an earlier great flood story from Mesopotamia, the same that inspired the amazingly similar great flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

The first five books are the 'books of Moses', supposedly written to him as told by God, although there is actually overwhelming evidence for several authors AND editors. I've come to the conclusion that Moses was in fact more of a shaman then a prophet, who discovered the cannabis plant, burning in the mountains by some means, and the fumes allowed him a powerful sensation of spirituality and self awareness, an experience he felt as an encounter with the creator. It is clear that the holy oil contained cannabis, as did the sacramental incense of the time. After this experience Moses built the small tent (Tabernacle) which he would enter, covered in the cannabis oil, covering everything in the tent with the oil, and finally burning cannabis incense on an altar at which time 'God' would again come to him 'in the smoke'.

This is a beautiful scene to me, and something I hope to experience myself, but what it tells me is that the books of Moses are most likely the passed down stories of a great shaman and his visions. Later this was incorporated as the basis to a religion, and the later books I feel were written more to control the people of an early civilization, then as actual testament to 'God'. The book portrays God as a vengeful one, who demands worship and sacrifice, which if true I want nothing to deal with anyway. If untrue, it shows the true political nature of the Old Testament.

I've come to realize there are two types of people, the open minded, and the simple minded. My wife is simple minded for example, she believed in the Old Testament without second thought, all her life, never even thinking of the contradictions to science and known history because its been engrained into her mind since she was a child that the book is true. She lives her life without really caring about the bigger questions, but content to find happiness in simple material things. When she smokes cannabis she gets 'stoned', but doesn't really make a spiritual connection. She is the type of person that has a 'bad trip' once and a while, the type of person that doesn't really know what is going on in government, the type that is perfectly content to go with the flow thinking as long as one is 'good' an eternity of happiness in 'Heaven' after death awaits.

I on the other hand cannot be satisfied living without knowing or questing to find answers for life’s philosophical questions. I meditate and find cannabis helps me attain higher levels of incite and consciousness. I see no reason to be content to work a nine to five and just put my blind faith into a book that clearly is largely fiction. I can't go with the flow, because I need to KNOW. I don't have 'bad trips' because I understand when I smoke cannabis the experience is what I make of it. I can see the atrocities and greed the governments of the world are involved in and amazed there are so many of this other type of people that either don't know or don't care what’s going on so long as the life they are accustom to is maintained.

Moving on to the New Testament, we know none of the gospels were written by actual apostles, but by supposed friends and companions to them, long after Christ had lived and died. As such it too is subject to being distorted by spending so long as oral tradition and speculation. My thoughts after researching the gospels both canonical and Gnostic, is that Jesus, much like Moses, was more a shaman, who too used the entheogen cannabis to enhance his spirituality. I'd wager he was a very bright young man who knew in order to spread his message of love and compassion that he had to do so through the use and aid of the Hebrew teachings in the Old Testament.

As Hinduism was also formed with the aid entheogens, and is the root of most Eastern religion including Buddhism, I feel that people like Buddha, Moses, Jesus, etc., were open minded individuals who were beginning to realize higher levels of consciousness and their visions and experiences have been shared and passed down but ultimately distorted by politics and greed. In a sense these people's life work has been ultimately built upon into religions meant to corral and control the masses of the simple minded. Not to say that being simple minded is a bad thing, nor that one simple minded person can't become open minded, in fact I am sure I am using a bad choice in my wording but hope you understand my sentiment.

This is the basis of what I have been calling Kantheism, a blend of science of world religion, holding that entheogens, specifically cannabis being the key to higher states of consciousness and ultimate enlightenment.

In the beginning, there was light, which is completely true, in respect to the big bang, before the actual bang, the whole of the contents of the universe was compressed into a single pin point, and under such pressure the universe was a glowing white-hot entity. So in the beginning, there was light, before that, who knows. In essence, it can be said that we all come from the light, we all (cosmos, humans, animals, plants, all that is the universe) come a single point of immense glowing energy about 14 billion years ago. As such I believe it is undeniable that we and everyone and everything are connected in a sense. Through the research of the teachings and early visions of people like Moses, Jesus, Buddha, etc., and the further use of entheogen aids I think man can find the answers we all look for, and perhaps re-unite with the universe, or better yet, transcend it. I like to think that there is no heaven, where you 'chill out' in paradise for eternity, or hell, where you are tortured for eternity, as such ideas seem boring and impractical. I'd like to think as the universe being started or created by something, kind of like an egg, growing and incubating life, that the life within may someday transcend its boundaries (break through the shell if you will), and reach its true potential/start its real/next journey.

I meditate on such things daily, and on my upcoming trip the desert I'll be trying some Peyote (Actually Peruvian Torch, which is a legal cactus, also containing the active ingredient of mescaline, but one needs to ingest more to reach the beneficial levels) in supplement to my meditation and cannabis use to see what if any mysteries/insights I may be able to unlock or get a glimpse of.

What do you believe? Whatever it is, may we all be blessed!

[ren]

You have hit the nail on the head. After much of my own research I have come to the same conclusion, the Bible is a book of great stories but they are just that Stories, base on some truth. The Bible is relatively a new work in the grand scheme of things, the world time line or more importantly the spiritual time line of man far precedes any of the great religious texts. Quote "Bibles do not equal wisdom. In other words, all forms of spiritual text no matter how eloquently stated, cannot actually grant wisdom to the reader, merely thought the act of reading. Words are only the representation of things, but not the things themselves. All of the most widely followed religious conceptions. Each attempts to convey the same message, speaking of the underlying Truth through differing means. Each is a path, and all paths lead ultimately to God/Truth. Yet regardless of how well each system or person may or may not describe Truth, their essential value to the reader is only as great as ones' personal investment in Spiritual Fact. It is our personal experience, application and intention toward greater wisdom, which allows us to progress, regardless of what we have read. Therefore it is not the reading about God or even the most advanced theological studies, which provide insight into the Divine.

As history demonstrates, religion and scriptural study are more often used as places of refuge from responsibility, than the actual embodiment of spiritual wisdom. Dogmas and the artificial divisions they contain are the very source of wars, ethnic conflicts, misery and destruction throughout history. The blind insistence upon religious intolerance has resulted in most of the horrors of human civilization. (Such as the warfare in the Middle East, the Dark Ages, and the "conversion", (destruction) of the Native peoples of the world throughout history). Religious orthodoxy continues to be, as it is said "the opiate of the masses" as a convenient distraction from the Truth. Such distraction is convenient because it always place the ultimate responsibility for ones' actions outside of the self. Such doctrines are the very center of darkness and dis-empowerment in our world, and they have no place for an enlightened humanity."

Early man experimented with all that was available to him, upon finding such gifts from the heavens as marijuana, mushrooms, cacti to (name a very few) he found a way to commune with the Divine. This is where religious beliefs emerged from, and surely the concept of God.

Terence McKenna Said "Psychedelics are probably responsible for every aspect of human evolution apart from the decline in body hair."

Some time line information:

10,000,000,000 Big Bang
10.000.000.000 - 300,000 yrs after the big bang protons and electrons separate
5,000,000,000 the sun forms
3,000,000,000 the earth cools and simple life begins
70,000,000 dinosaurs die out
2,000,000 Australopithecines emerge in S. Africa
70,000 ice age begins
55,000 first inhabitants of Australia
15,000 Paleolithic cave paintings
10,000 Paleo-Indians enter America
9,500 Ice age ends, sea level rise (100 meters?)
9500 Plato's date for the sinking of Atlantis
6000+ Mother Goddess worshipped in Europe
5000 Beginning of agriculture in Near East
3100 o.c. Pyramid Texts
3760 start of Jewish year count
2953-2838 Chinese Emperor Fu Hsi, produced first w.v. of I Ching
1800 Babylonian Creation Myth
1600 Egyptian Book of the Dead
1200 Origin of Judaism, o.c. O.T. starting with the Torah (the first 5 books)
1194 Fall of Troy
1100 Rise of Mayan Culture
600 w.v. Rig Veda
500 BCE w.v. Genesis, Exodus, Numbers
400 BCE books of Proverbs, Job
360 Critas by Plato the origin of the Atlantis story
300 Book of Jonah
164 Book of Daniel
150 Yoga Sutras of Patanajali, Dead Sea Scrolls
100 b. of Jesus
47 first burning of the library of Alexandria
1-30 CE Jesus events described in the first four N.T. Books
30-96 New Testaments
68 Destruction of Qumran community (Dead Sea Scrolls)
70 Gospel of Mark
80 Gospel of Mathew
90 Gospel of John
81-96 o.c. Revelation of St. John
100 Nag Hammadi Scriptures
166 Buddhism formally established in China

[doG]

Yes, yes, yes. I've looking for this on here.

merlingfx wrote:

[Sir Les]

The big Bang is a theory!
There is no proof we have evolved from Monkey or Ape..there are too many pieces missing to prove that idea...and new D.N.A shows we are distinct, and apart from them...so we are part ofthem might be right, but we didn;t evolve..we were designed.

What is possible is that as it says in scripture the universe was indeed made in six days.
If God is above the atomic, and antimatter rhelms, then this could be possible!..for God could make time stand still using gravity.
Maybe God made this universe by mating other universe, thus it was born into being...what ever it is, it is all theory until we find the answer that fits the picture properly!
And nobody knows how it was done....If God told Moses the truth, then maybe that' the ticket...why disbelieve God?
As I have said God commands the elements...even gravity and antimatter..and all the subatomic precipatation ..thus making a day one day in accordance to his word....once this world is made, a day and a night make for a cycle of time passing...what was before this time, if time could stand still, or be sped up?
to be accuate and from reference 1 day equals 1000 years, and 1000 years equals a day...maybe God is 1000 light years away from Earth.
And at certain times, this kingdom comes closer to Earth, or in a direct line of sight...so God can come through the natural lensing of this universe.

[doG]

Sir Les wrote:

[merlingfx]

Sir Les, the big bang is in fact a theory, but I never said it was fact. My original statement said "before the actual bang", which I believe has solid scientific foundation, but is still inconsiquential to the argument at hand.

What is fact is that the universe is expanding, and as such, at one time some billions of years ago was but a single point in existence. We can tell this by the microwave patterns we are now able to measure with todays instrumentation. We further know that when compressed to such a small point, that the whole of the universe (all particles, mass, etc.) would have amounted to an extremely hot and bright universe in the early stages. It is from this that I say we all come from one origin, one point of light.

Whether 'God' made the light, whether we ARE the light, or whether there was in fact a BANG (the bang BTW is the theory of what CAUSED the expansion, there is no question that such an expansion occured) is purely secondary.

Further, as mentioned in my original post, what of God creating whales first? What of dinosaurs? This omission, in my eyes, clearly shows that these are inspired writings, from the use of entheogens such as our sacrament, and not the official 'word of God' as depicted by bible evangelists and larger religious organizations like the Vatican.

As for evolution: like it or not IT OCCURED. The scientific evidence cannot be refuted, but of course that doesn't mean that we came from apes or monkeys (so naturally we may find differences in DNA samples), nor did I claim as much. I merely tried to point out we are evolved beings from SOMETHING. This as I tried to point out in the original post tells us there was no 'first' man, or 'first' woman, but rather the creation of humanity was a process of evolution from one species to the next, ending(currently) with humans. This isn't an argument on intelligent design vs. evolution, we're merely using science to further point out the holes in the Old Testament's testimony of how 'everything' came to be.

Your argument is based on biblical scripture, and as I mentioned, the key is to first examine the bible and realize it is in fact widely fiction (atleast in the first few books - I.E.: its foundation!).

Whether or not you believe in a god that uses gravity to make time stand still, or has complete control of the elements, is a belief you must come to through your own spiritual path, certainly no book would be able to verify such claims, one must experience first hand. The bible is a valuable tool, and to me it is a tale of how in fact prohibition caused the lack of spirituality we see today...

Think about it. In the biblical times, entheogens were unregulated and people saw 'God' all the time, all over the world people were seeing gods and dieties of one sort or another. Then slowly as political forces came to be and churches evolved into greedy empires, entheogens were outlawed as a control over the population. Then what heppened? Amazingly 'God' seemed to dissapear. No more prophets, no more visionaries, just the existing books that people and entities like the Vatican, King James, and Constantine have tweaked and formed into an 'end all, be all' authority on spirituality.

What is your basis for saying God can freeze time and control the elements? Is it because the Bible says so? Such thinking, to me, is like believing 'Bat Boy' exists because there was a picture of him in the National Enquirer. If the validity of a book is questioned, you cannot prove validity by the book itself, you need outside verification, scientific, historic, or otherwise. As I have illustrated, the Bible can clearly be seen as having fictional(or otherwise historically innacurate) elements, and this is the entire basis of my ideological presentation. The idea being that these and other religious texts are the sacred and personal enteogen inspired visions of prophets like Moses, and that while they entail valuable tools and lessons of morality, they are in no way 'the end all, be all' of spirituality, and as such it is up to us to start the entheogenic practice anew and find our own paths to enlightenment.

Free your mind... Find your own path... I think most of us are here because we feel cannabis is an invaluable aid in such quests for spirituality and personal truths.

[Sir Les]

[Sir Les]

[RogerChristie]

Hey there,

Aloha from the rainforest. What a great run on this topic. You guys rock in the religious-philosophy department! I'm stoked to read your thoughts here and grateful to have you as members.

I hold the belief that a strictly organized "Cannabis religion" is somewhat of an oxy-moron, even though that's what is needed to communicate effectively with the non-Cannabis (straight-reality) world of law enforcement, courts, etc. It's also a help for our own linear minds to follow and learn from.

History (patriarchy) goes from today back about 5,000 years. Herstory (matriarchy) starts about 5,000 years ago and goes back another 30,000 years. Which side of the rainbow do you want to play on today?

In my opinion, the closer we come to making 'rules for rituals', the further we get from authentic, personal 'God' experiences. That being said, I do believe in sharing what works for each of us and taking what we think might be good into our own practice for the evaluation of its truth.

I have a book called "God's Secretaries" about the process that went into writing the King James version of the Bible. It's a very human tale of an inspired piece of work.

Some of my Dad's philosophy comes to mind here. He said that one day when we have access to the largest telescope ever built that we'll look the deepest ever into space - and see the back of our own head. :-}

Love and respect,

Roger


###

[merlingfx]

Sir Les, while your beliefs are certainly valid and respected, I still find myself wondering what would make you believe in the story of Eden. Have you yourself had visions or otherwise spiritually confirmed these stories as truths?

I just hope you are not using the Bible as your ONLY reference. Almost all religions have a varying creation story, and likewise a phrophecy of end times that start with their god(s) being denies/questioned/renounced. As such I agree with you that "...some of the Bible holds some truth to it, as best could of been transmitted to a simple young mind at that time. " Which is the point of my particular view on things. All scripture is equally valid, as it is all the recorded stories of early man's expansion of consiousness through the aid of entheogens. As such I think we should all study them all as much as possible to fully be able to choose which path we'll make our own.

I'll leave for now with this final thought I just had:

If consciousness were a language, then the scriptures of major religion serve as the writtings of those just learning the language. It is therefore our duty as intermediate speakers of the language to deny the prohibitions formed by politics and greed and again use the tools and aides of our ancestor's to expand our vocabulary, so that we may either become or usher in a new era of advanced speakers.

[sara]

it's always easier to say that there is evil out there and God out there
but everything which is out there is also within each one of us,
the trick is to learn to recognize self- knowledge and when you learn to listen to yourself , you'll find everything to be able to see and feel what is right and what is wrong to do to others and yourself.
life force has no need for religiouse believes,the Sun the moon and the rythems will change from Summer to winter from being unborn to being born,
life forces will go on and on as we come and go.
in order
to help to connect to our "higher-self" plants are the tools that are here to be explored.
_________________
“When one is connected above,’’ he said
quietly, “he does not fall below.”
OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK...

[aeroplane]

I commend your discoveries, brother Merl.

[aeroplane]

I commend your discoveries, brother Merl.

[merlingfx]

Yes it will! I am very excited, cannabis has been a foundation and invaluable aid thus far on my spiritual journey, and the more I look into the history of religion and entheogen usage I get more excited to be taking part of human ancestry's most sacred and ancients practices.

If, as modern science is telling us, we and the universe around us come from the same origins, the same energy, it seems logical to me that there is surely some sort of connection between all things. I hope I may one day at least be afforded a glimpse of such a connection.

While I feel cannabis is a key element in reaching higher states of consciousness, I'm beginning to think that perhaps such cacti and mushrooms are aids to be used on occasion to open new doorways of consciousness, to see 'how far the rabbit hole goes'.

[aeroplane]

Theories... facts.... gospels, etc. none of that matters unless you believe in it. The problem with all of these ideas is that each is limited by linguistics trying to prove the existance of our Consciousness, and that's impossible. That's like the Dream trying to prove the existance of the Dreamer.

To borrow from another example, that would be like the egg trying to understand the world outside of its shell.

The cracks in the shell of reality are beginning to form.
_________________
"Penalties against the possession of a drug
should not be more damaging to the individual
than the drug itself."

US President Jimmy Carter

[aeroplane]

Theories... facts.... gospels, etc. none of that matters unless you believe in it. The problem with all of these ideas is that each is limited by linguistics trying to prove the existance of our Consciousness, and that's impossible. That's like the Dream trying to prove the existance of the Dreamer.

To borrow from another example, that would be like the egg trying to understand the world outside of its shell.

The cracks in the shell of reality are beginning to form.
_________________
"Penalties against the possession of a drug
should not be more damaging to the individual
than the drug itself."

US President Jimmy Carter

[merlingfx]