What - exactly - is that 'sacrament'?

RogerChristie

Hello out there,

Aloha. I just noticed this photo of the Pope and his holy 'sacrament' that he and others claim is the body and blood of Christ. I ask you, what exactly is that circle wafer he holds in his hand? What is it made of? Who makes it? Under what conditions is it made? Etc. I really want to know. It looks like a white bread cracker to me, nothing more. With all due respect, I really want to know what is he promoting as 'sacrament'?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041008/481/rom10110081848

Much love and respect to one and all (including the Pope),

Roger

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Lilli · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:34 pm Post subject:

Most parishioners share in the communion ritual without giving a thought to the ingredients in the wafer or wine. Communion wafers are usually made with wheat, a grain that contains a protein called gluten. The wafers pose a problem to people with a wheat or gluten intolerance

Roman Catholic doctrine holds that communion wafers must have at least some unleavened wheat, as did the bread served at the Last Supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion.

http://www.balloon-juice.com/archives/004272.html
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and another site says.
For valid consecration the hosts must be:

made of wheaten flour,
mixed with pure natural water,
baked in an oven, or between two heated iron moulds, and
they must not be corrupted (Miss. Rom., De Defectibus, III, 1).
If the host is not made of wheaten flour, or is mixed with flour of another kind in such quantity that it cannot be called wheat bread, it may not be used (ibid.). If not natural but distilled water is used, the consecration becomes of doubtful validity (ibid., 2). If the host begins to be corrupt, it would be a grievous offence to use it, but it is considered valid matter (ibid., 3.) For licit consecration:
the bread must be, at present unleavened in the Western Church, but leavened bread in the Eastern Church, except among the Maronites, the Armenians, and in the Churches of Jerusalem and Alexandria, where it is unleavened. It is probable that Christ used unleavened bread at the institution of the Blessed Eucharist, because the Jews were not allowed to have leavened bread in their houses on the days of the Azymes. Some authors are of the opinion that down to the tenth century both the Eastern and Western Churches used leavened bread; others maintain that unleavened bread was used from the beginning in the Western Church; still others hold that unleavened or leavened bread was used indifferently. St. Thomas (IV, Dist. xi, qu. 3) holds that, in the beginning, both in the East and West unleavened bread was used; that when the sect of the Ebionites arose, who wished that the Mosaic Law should be obligatory on all converts, leavened bread was used, and when this heresy ceased the Latins used again unleavened bread, but the Greeks retained the use of leavened bread. Leavened bread may be used in the Latin Church if after consecration the celebrant adverts to the fact that the host before him has some substantial defect, and no other than leavened bread can be procured at the time (Lehmkuhl, n. 121, 3). A Latin priest travelling in the East, in places in which there are no churches of his rite, may celebrate with leavened bread. A Greek priest travelling in the West may, under similar circumstances, celebrate with unleavened bread. For the purpose of giving Viaticum, if no unleavened bread be at hand, some say that leavened may he used; but St. Liguori, (bk. VI. n. 203, dub. 2) says that the more probable opinion of theologians is that it cannot be done.
The hosts must be recently made (Rit. Rom., tit. iv, cap. i, n. 7). The rubrics do not specify the term recentes in speaking of the hosts. In Rome, the bakers of altar-breads are obliged to make solemn affidavit that they will not sell breads older than fifteen days, and St. Charles, by a statute of the Fourth Synod of Milan, prescribed that hosts older than twenty days must not be used in the celebration of Mass. In practice, therefore, those older than three weeks ought not to be used.
Round in form, and not broken.
Clean and fair, of a thin layer, and of a size conformable to the regular custom in the Latin Church. In Rome the large hosts are about three and one-fifth inches in diameter; in other places they are smaller, but should be at least two and three-fourths inches in diameter. The small hosts for the Communion of the laity should be about one and two-fifths inches in diameter (Schober, S. Alphonsi Liber de Caeremoniis Missae, p. 6, footnote 9). When a large host can not be obtained Mass may be said in private with a small host. In cases of necessity, such as permitting the people to fulfil the precept of hearing Mass, or administering Viaticum, the Mass may be also said with a small host but, as liturgists say, to avoid scandal the faithful should be advised.
As a rule the image of Christ crucified should be impressed on the large host (Cong. Sac. Rit., 6 April, 1834), but the monogram of the Holy Name (Ephem. Lit., XIII, 1899, p. 686), or the Sacred Heart (ibid., p. 266) may also be adopted.
The altar-breads assumed different names according as they had reference to the Eucharist as a sacrament or as a sacrifice: bread, gift (donum), table (mensa) allude to the Sacrament, which was instituted for the nourishment of our soul; oblation victim, host, allude to sacrifice. Before the tenth century the word "host" was not employed, probably because before this time the Blessed Eucharist was considered more frequently as a sacrament than as a sacrifice, hence the Fathers use such expressions as communion (synaxis), supper (coena), breaking of bread, etc., but at present the word "host" is used when referring to the Eucharist either as a sacrament or as a sacrifice. In the liturgy it is used:

for the bread before its consecration, "Suscipe sancte Pater . . . hanc immaculatam hostiam" (Offertory of the Mass);
for Christ under the appearance of the Eucharistic Species, "Unde et memores . . . hostiam puram, hostiam sanctam, hostiam immaculatam" (Mass, after the consecration).
Durandus says that the word host is of pagan origin, derived from the word hostio, to strike, referring to the victim offered to the gods after a victory, but it is also of biblical origin, as it represented the matter, or victim, of the sacrifice, e.g. "expiationis hostiam" (Exod., xxix. 36).
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01349d.htm
_________________

I pass to you the torch that Christ once passed to me.
Others are still in the dark and need
the light to see.
"I AM"
"Gathering the fragments so that
none are lost"
His Shepherdess
http://missouri.thcministry.org/

Lilli · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:38 pm Post subject:

SACRAMENT. Sacraments are rituals that use objects and actions to confer spiritual benefits. Objects include bread, wine, oil, chrism, water, and incense. Actions include the sign of the cross, gestures made by the priest, and precise verbal formulas. The Catholic Church has seven sacraments: baptism, confirmation, the Eucharist (Mass), penance (confession, or sacrament of reconciliation), holy orders (ordination), matrimony (marriage), and anointing of the sick (extreme unction, or the last rites). According to the Catholic Church, the effectiveness of the sacraments is due to the rituals that are performed.
_________________

I pass to you the torch that Christ once passed to me.
Others are still in the dark and need
the light to see.
"I AM"
"Gathering the fragments so that
none are lost"
His Shepherdess
http://missouri.thcministry.org/

**Fyrefly1** · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:54 am Post subject:

In my church (in the olden days) they used a bleached wheat flour with very little leavening. I'm sure it was baked and sold by a company specializing in liturgical supplies. After it was ritually blessed the large Altar Host was only used and eaten by the priests and deacons during the ceremony; all the small ones, along with a sip of wine were given to the common people.
In my religion it was believed that the bread and wine symbollicaly became the body and blood of Christ whereas the catholic church holds that by some miracle after you eat it (transubstantiation) it turns into the body and blood.

Fyrefly1

RogerChristie · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:17 pm Post subject: Host (hostia) - 'victim' ?

This is really getting interesting.

Lilli wrote:

Durandus says that the word host is of pagan origin, derived from the word hostio, to strike, referring to the victim offered to the gods after a victory, but it is also of biblical origin, as it represented the matter, or victim, of the sacrifice, e.g. "expiationis hostiam" (Exod., xxix. 36).
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01349d.htm

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It got me thinking. I looked 'host' up in the 'Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets' by Barbara Walker. This is what it says:

Host: Latin from hostia, or 'victim,' became the Host of the Eucharist, indicating the dead and cannibalized god whose worshippers devoured his flesh and blood - literally in the earliest religious systems, symbolically in the later Mysteries such as Mithraism, Orphism, and Christianity. Bread played 'host' to the visiting spirit of the deity, and became one with the body of the worshipper upon being eaten. See Cannibalism; Transubstantiation. Another derivative of hostia was 'hostage,' a surrogate; if and if not ransomed, a victim.

We have entered some practical and some strange territory here. A friend of mine says that it's a pagan/goddess thing. Like women, fields are fertile (hopefully) and produce children every harvest time. Mother - nature.

Virtually everyone ate bread and drank wine. Food turns into the body and the blood because that's exactly what all food does. It becomes us; it builds our body and it builds our blood. Wine looks like blood. Drink wine and have more blood. OK. I get it.

Drink wine and it turns into Jesus' body? I don't think so.

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Pepper · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:21 pm Post subject:

It is difficult for many to accept that many of the traditions of modern churches have roots in pre-christian practices. I believe that many traditions are adopted from ancient religions because of the truths they hold.

For example, many believers don't know about the Russian Orthodox churches' history of reliance on hemp for life itself.
_________________
We will succeed unless we quit.

Rev. Chazman · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:47 pm Post subject:

Indeed its true... Many practices, traditions, holidays etc. in the "modern church" are derived from ancient pagan traditions.

As new churches and systems of worship rose to popularity though out history they incorporated holidays and other bits and peices from the religions they are trying to replace. In this way the masses are more likely to accept the "new" religion or God(s) over time, because they have basicaly the same festivels and rituals... they just convert certain names or ideas to make them more compatable with the "New" religion.

History is filled with examples of this happening.

Peace
_________________
I praise good thoughts, good words, and good deeds and those that are to be thought, spoken, and done. I do accept all good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. I do renounce all evil thoughts, evil words, and evil deeds. ---Avesta: Yasna
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Future Servant of Cannatopia ©2004 - ∞ Rev. Chazman all rights reserved

Don Quixote · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject:

ts interesting that hostia means sacrifice in latin.when Jusus told his desciples to do this in memory of me what he was actualy telling them is that He was about to make a sacrifice for the whole of humanity.that sacrifice was to be His own flesh and blood , symbolised by the bread and wine.
at the same supper He declares to one of His desciples that He will be betrayed by one of the desciples whom He identifies by dipping a piece of bread in some wine and handing it to judas.its all very symbolic .
the whole communion thing is supposed to be a continual reminder of what He did and why He did it partaking in the church ritual is supposed to sanctify you and cause the spirit of God to be with you and help you achieve spiritual enlightenment and grace i suppose.
.the church immediatlly muscled in on the whole thing filled it with pagan ritual and hokus pokus and declared that only they can give communion,absolution,,enlightenment,etc etc etc.
i dont go to mass anymore cause they were so busy with their hokus pokus the forgot what it supposed to symbolise.
i now have chosen a different path to 'commune' with my creator and in fact the very reason i now partake of our sacrement is to achieve spiritual enlightenment and awareness.this i do in order to better help me achieve the two commandments given by Jesus which were
1)love God for there is no other
2)love thy neighbour as thine own self.
thats the whole of Christianity right there in those two lines.the most important words of all to any Christian.
have you notice how the sacrement helps you achieve those most sacred of all duties?the sacrement is a vital part of my religous beliefs and the smoke going into my lungs is no different than the chalice in my old church,except it opens up my mind.
ahhh yes the ancient kaneh bosem helps me get closer to my creator and to love my neighbour,specialy that enormous bag of thai sticks i had back in the eighties,man that was a spiritual experience.
now i ask you does that sound so bad?who gets hurt?do i desrve to be persecuted,hounded and imprisoned for that?

hope my extreme views have not offended anybody or bored anyone to sleep!(climbs down off the pulpit to the sound of loud snoring)

God bless.