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Were Hiroshima & Nagasaki terrorist attacks?
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Was the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki a terrorist attack?
No, the US was 100% justified in using such brutal force on a civilian population.
10%
 10%  [ 3 ]
No, the US was 100% justified in using such brutal force on a civilian population.
10%
 10%  [ 3 ]
Yes, the US wanted the world to know there is a New World Order.
40%
 40%  [ 12 ]
Yes, the US wanted the world to know there is a New World Order.
40%
 40%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 30

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aeroplane
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Were Hiroshima & Nagasaki terrorist attacks? Reply with quote

I'm curious which version of reality you subscribe to. Was the nuclear bombing of the two civilian cities warranted to stop the war? Was the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki an opportunity for the US to say to the world, "We have the bomb and we are not afraid to use it, so listen up!"? Please vote and leave your comments. Thank you.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted "yes", IMO the Japanese were already a defeated nation in WW2.

The ussa did want to test out their new bomb in a real-life situation.

At the end or near the end of WW2, the ussa & ussr began the cold-war...

imperialistic, corporate-minded, power hungry motherfuckers with no regard for humanity - other than themselves & what benefits them.

Peace.
Torkel
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My vote is a yes too. Blatant disregard for human life is a war crime, let alone the fact that they were mostly all civilians that died.

What am I saying??? WAR in ITSELF is a CRIME! Peace will only come through peaceful action.....Defense is a whole other story, and does not fit into the historic versions of these events as a reason for US involvement.

Sounds just like today.......I dare someone to say history does not repeat itself!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Adam wrote:
WAR in ITSELF is a CRIME!


I agree with that. War is barbaric and a civilized society not worthy. We should have one global law; Every single 'leader' who starts a war should be put to face international court for crimes against humanity and locked up for life in a mental hospital.

Those types are sick and dangerous, maybe worse than mass rapists.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bomb should have been dropped on Hitler himself. It would have served him right for killing all the jews.

However, the japanese, unlike the nazis, were a industrious people with the capacity to give the world playstations and decent anime cartoons. Its just criminal to attack people like that.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:21 pm    Post subject: DO NOT KILL! Reply with quote

DO NOT KILL is not one of the 10 suggestions.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GCW wrote:
Quote:
DO NOT KILL is not one of the 10 suggestions.

Whose 10 suggestions? ...
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Miranda vs Arizona (384 U.S. 436, 125): "Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule-making or legislation which would abrogate them."

HAGANS vs LAVINE (415 US 533 N-3,note 5): "Once JURISDICTION is challenged it must be proven by the Plaintiff."
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two bombings of Japan were definitely terrorist attacks...killing innocent people to make a statement is always an act of terrorism.

It's just that back then the US thought they would be saving American soldiers' lives by doing so and the Japanese were considered low lifes who deserved to die for attacking us at Pearl Harbor.

It's interesting that Albert Einstein wrote a letter to Harry Truman asking him to show the power of the bomb by detonating it off the shores of Tokyo as a show of what it could do to them if they didn't surrender.

That letter, of course, was ignored...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Einstein was a great thinker wasn't he?

What's sad is they didn't think one time was enough to deter them, so they dumped more radioactive material on Japanese soil...

That's about as good as the depleted uranium rounds they use now. They're trying to make a mark that lasts for 50-60 years..
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It's just that back then the US thought they would be saving American soldiers' lives by doing so and the Japanese were considered low lifes who deserved to die for attacking us at Pearl Harbor.


Yep. I was a small child in the decade right after WWII, and it was still very much a hot topic with the grown-ups.

I remember hearing the "We had to do it to save American Boys" mantra repeated a lot.

...and the word "Jap" was still very much in use.

Now, we know that the Japanese had been pressing for peace negotiations for months. It was over.

The civilians of Hiroshima & Nagasaki were slaughtered, just so Washington could make a point.

Paradigms, Reality Models, Myths, Propaganda and Just-Plain-Bullshit are quite fascinating...and effect everything.

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P.S. Sidenote: When I was in the Philippines in the early 70s, a single, remaining Japanese soldier came out of the bush and formally surrendered to, then, President Marcos.

It was a big deal in Japan, too. Big welcome home! And a ton of Army back-pay!

We all secretly suspected that he'd really been taking it pretty easy all those years, shacked up and drinking lots of San Miguel Beer. I still think so. rofl
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've often wondered why Japan and not Germany? Was it because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indicaspice wrote:
I've often wondered why Japan and not Germany? Was it because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor?


Too many German War Machine factories were owned, or partially owned, by U.S. corporations. When Americans landed in Normandy in June 1944 and captured their first German trucks, they discovered that these vehicles were powered by engines produced by American firms such as Ford and General Motors.

In the mid 60s, some American corporations, including Ford and GM, were awarded war-reparation payments for losses suffered by their European factories during Allied bombing raids.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S.

It's like pulling a thread on a sweater...it all begins to unravel in pretty short order...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject: to all Reply with quote

To all who replied:

As of yet i am the only one how feels that was not a terrorist attack.


I belive many of you need to refresh your history. form my memory it is more like this. Does any one know what unconditional surrender means???? That was the objective in both theaters. We could not have used it on hitler because it was not ready yet and rest assured we would have dropped it on him too. One i was not there on the beaches of Iwo Jima or the massaive naval battles on the open seas, but form a military stand point completely oblitrating two entire citys to force an end, in acoordance with unconditional surrender, to save an uncountable numberof lives could be justified. I ask any one who was there or has been in combat to speak on that. If i new there was a bomb that could be dropped so that maybe i will not have to die, then use it.
Though many are right we could have just exploded it over the ocean in clear sight. If i were truman i would have done this only if japan had not sucker punched us. Which i feel is a TERRORIST ATTACK but for some reason no one is asking that question. WHat about Komakazi pilots does that show peace offerings. Would those be TERRORIST ATTACKS. The batan death march, prisoner abuse and neglect, and a host of other things the japs did show that they are just as inhuman as any. I have my reserves about my country too, but "do unto others", fits this situation.
To address americans thinking they are superior over the japs, yes maybe some did, but do you know what the japs did to the chinamen. they slaugther them by the millions regular farmers peasants. Many were used as target practice. the extermanation of the jews was tragic yes and everyone knows of this but japans artocities was not taught to me in world history i know that for sure.
As for american corporation having a hand in the german war machine i have not read nor herd that any where, if true this is very intesting. can you back up this claim????
True war is barbaric in ways, but is needed in society. I mean war will happen it just takes time. fact is there are evil people in the worldand they need to be delt with accordingly you can't talk everyone in to peace. War has been part of our human evolution, with new findsing and technologies scientists now believe that ealry man may have elminated other speices similar to us. If true then it is ingrained in our dna but that is just an idea not a fact. Many think that an man such as hitler will never bee seen from again, i say in this day and age it would be even easier. War. Rev. Adam if you could please show when in history peace cam form peacefull actions, i am curious? History does repeat itself but not simpley because, it will only repeat when we forget. remember that or i will have to repeat it to later in the future. good day all i hope yall can make some snese of my chicken scratches.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, POisonDa. Please take the following in the spirit in which it is intended:

POisonDa wrote:

As for american corporation having a hand in the german war machine i have not read nor herd that any where, if true this is very intesting. can you back up this claim????


Of course. Would I have posted it, here, without doing my research?

This is the last time, however, that I will EVER do your research for you. I'm not your secretary, nor your research assistant -- and, most likely, I'm not your Daddy.

The fact that you have not "herd" (sic) of such is of no consequence to anyone, other than you -- and it should be of the utmost concern, to you.

You must learn to do research ON YOUR OWN. You have been lied to since the day you hit this planet.

You have a right to be better informed, and you have an OBLIGATION, to yourself, to take that responsibility for yourself.

Read on, and have your eyes opened. It's my hope that it will spur you on to look further into matters on your own. I'll have a comment at the end of this post.


Bradford Snell reports that "After the cessation of hostilities, GM and Ford demanded reparations from the U.S. Government for wartime damages sustained by their Axis facilities as a result of Allied bombing. By 1967 GM had collected more than $33 million in reparations and Federal tax benefits for damages to its warplane and motor vehicle properties in formerly Axis territories . . . Ford received a little less than $1 million, primarily as a result of damages sustained by its military truck complex at Cologne."
GM and the Nazis, by Bradford C. Snell, Ramparts Magazine, June 1974, pp. 14- 22


Even after Pearl Harbor, ITT was working for the Nazis, reports Higham: ". . . the German army, navy, and air force contracted with ITT for the manufacture of switchboards, telephones, alarm gongs, buoys, air raid warning devices, radar equipment, and thirty thousand fuses per month for artillery shells used to kill British and American troops."

ITT also "supplied ingredients for the rocket bombs that fell on London," and other devices as well, without which "it would have been impossible for the German air force to kill American and British troops, for the German army to fight the Allies in Africa, Italy, France, and Germany, for England to have been bombed, or for Allied ships to have been attacked at sea."

Trading with the Enemy, Highamp. 99


". . . ITT now presents itself as the innocent victim of the Second World War, and has been handsomely recompensed for its injuries. In 1967, nearly thirty years after the events, ITT actually managed to obtain $27 million in compensation from the American government, for war damage to Focke-Wulf plants - on the basis that they were American property bombed by Allied bombers."

The Sovereign State of ITT, Anthony Sampson, p. 47 (Power, Inc., pp. 500-501)



"Four months after the United States entered World War II, the Justice Department obtained an indictment of Exxon and its principal officers for having made arrangements, starting in the late 1920s with I.G. Farben involving patent sharing and division of world markets. Jersey Standard agreed not to develop processes for the manufacture of synthetic rubber; in exchange, Farben agreed not to compete in the American petroleum market. After war broke out in Europe, but before the attack on Pearl Harbor, executives of Standard Oil and Farben, at a meeting in Holland, established a "modus vivendi" for continuing the arrangements in event of war between the United States and Germany - although the arrangements interfered with the ability of the United States to make synthetic rubber desperately needed after it entered the war in December 1941. Rather than face a criminal trial, Exxon and the indicted executives entered no-contest pleas - the legal equivalent of guilty pleas - and were fined the minor sums which were the maximum amounts permitted by law. A few days later, on March 26, 1942, the Senate Special Committee Investigating the National Defense Program held a hearing at which Thurman Arnold, chief of the Antitrust Division, put into the record documents on which the [criminal] indictment had been based, including a memo from a Standard Oil official on the "modus vivendi" agreed to in Holland. After the hearing, the committee chairman, Harry S. Truman, characterized the arrangements as treasonable."

Trading with the Enemy, Highamp. 99

...five decades after the end of the Second World War, Ford (like GM) was accused in a lawsuit (initiated on March 4, 1998) of using slave labor in its German subsidiary in the Forties, and of gaining 'unjust enrichments' from the use of forced, slave labor.
Washington Post (March 5, 1998)

POisonDa wrote:


...if you could please show when in history peace cam form peacefull actions, i am curious?


Ghandi. India. The British. Salt. Non-violent resistance.

http://www.care2.com/channels/solutions/home/1404

British Magistrate: "You don't expect us to simply walk out of India, do you?"

Ghandi: "Yes. In the end, you will simply walk out of India."

Which is, of course, what eventually happened.

POisonDa wrote:

History does repeat itself...


It is always helpful to remind oneself that "history" is always....ALWAYS written by whomever won the war.

If you plan to run for political office someday, as you once indicated, you should prepare yourself with facts, and develop a communications style which is more effective, i.e., your spelling, syntax and continuity of thought. And, of course, your research.

Unless, of course, you plan to run as a Republican, in which case, a knowledge of facts and adequate communications skills would be quite irrelevant. rofl

Now. Can you, with facts, dispute anything that I've asserted?

You now have the opportunity to back up your assertions in the above post with facts that you have gleaned from your OWN research.

Please state your sources, as I have done.

If you blindly believe the "official version" of anything, without doing your own follow-up research, you are living in a fantasy world.

Learn how to question. Everything. It's quite important.

Welcome to the real world, Bro. You're seated at the Grown-Ups table, now. Come prepared.

Follow your bliss,
Ben
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