The Faces of war

[FSM Berkeley]

Faces

The faces,

traumatized,
twisted with anguish;

weeping,
disconsolate and dismayed;

from
behind the scenes

the dead
pan smirking

and cynical
praise of Jesus while

declaring them better off;
better off

than
yesterday.

The body
count continues

and the
faces appear

in my mind;
bloodied, bandaged,

smirking;
mouthing the platitude:

'it's better,
better than yesterday'.

5/07/05 © David H. Roche

http://www.bushflash.com/y2.html



Now it is not good for the Christian's health to hustle the Aryan brown,
For the Christian Riles, and the Aryan smiles, and he weareth the Christian down.
At the end of the fight is a tombstone white, with the name of the late deceased.
And the epitaph drear "A fool lies here, who tried to hustle the East" - Rudyard Kipling
_________________
“STAR-SPANGLED” NAILS
You’ve got
Some “Star-Spangled”
Nails
In your coffin, kid.
That’s what
They’ve done for you,
Son.
Richard Brautigan

http://www.divinentd.com/brautigan/pilltext.html

[yazoo]

hey hey now, i'm as big of a peaceful pothead hippy as anyone, but thats not all that comes out of war. However barbaric, stupid, and childish war may be EVERYTHING has Pros and Cons. I'm not going to say if war has more pros or more cons because i'm very pro-millitary for the united states, they teach alot of good things, what they do with the lessons they teach is what is stupid. Sometimes there is no choice but to solve a problem with brute force and the way nature gave us instincts to solve problems, sometimes it is what has to happen in the end. As for the war in Iraq, i say it's a stupid war, it's stupid, we are over there helping people who don't want to be helped and then ontop of that are trying to use them for whatever little things we want, the government is freaking out about a man hiding in the desert that will be dead in a few years. We should put the coast guard and national guard on high alerts for attacks and pull our offensive forces out of the middle east and tend to the real problems the united states faces, the political problems that are really screwing the country over, not some stupid war.
_________________

[IntrepidEZJ]

There has never been a good war or a bad peace.

-Benjamin Franklin

[FSM Berkeley]

[IntrepidEZJ]

Hmmm. Let's see.

Does China have troops all over the world? No.

How about Iran? Do they have troops employed in other countries? No.

And that dreadful Iraq? You know.......big, bad scary WMD's? No.

In fact, WHO is the ONLY country with troops positioned all over gods green Earth?

In the interest of imperialism.......I MEAN......(cough, cough) democracy?

We are a "regime" that has issued "regime change" in 14 countries already! (That I know of)

Iran was a democracy before we installed the Shah.

Roger could probably give everyone a heads up on Hawaii.

Cuba kicked our asses out and we deserved it!

I mean, hey Yazoo, what "problem" has been resolved by Brute Force?

If it wasn't for "brute force" we wouldn't have 1/4 of the problems we have now, and 8/8ths of the problems WE WILL HAVE because of our PAST and CURRENT actions.

The downtrodden, may look downtrodden and beaten in the face, but in their minds, in their families, they never forget.

Decades to Generations.

I bet you never forgot the bully who embarrassed you in front of that pretty girl in grade school.

Multiply that by 1,000,000 and apply it to someone's country or culture!

[yazoo]

[IntrepidEZJ]

Hitler could have been stopped, but to many financial interests were involved.

The world believes Hitler was the bad guy, which he was, but, in fact, it was the mega corporations, just like today, that caused most of the major strife.

Hitler's legs could have been cut off way in advance through diplomacy.

Yet, when you have Ford and GM funding him, and threatening to CUT OUR OIL, to our own country, their lies a bit of a problem.

Hitler felt empowered. Hitler WAS empowered. Hitler was a religious fanatic.

He was a Christian that believed heavily in an aryan Christ. He got his nasty views on anti-semitism from Martin Luther and Ben Disraeli among others. (Henry Ford as well)

He, like others, became jealous of the Jew because of their mastery of business. It has always been so. The jews only made up something like 10 percent of the German population, but controlled 70-80 percent of the commerce.

(Sound familiar?)

It is another example of WHAT HAPPENS when we let our leaders rule under the guise of RELIGION and unchecked beliefs.

To SUPPRESS religion is one thing, to FORCE religion, is quite the other.

The Holocaust, 6 million Jews, is quite horrible to think about. But history is quite selective.

How often do you hear about the genocide in the Sudan, OR, the genocide in the United States as 50 MILLION black slaves were slaughtered in the 1800's?

The Holocaust pails in comparison. We simply have a controlled media that tries heavily to direct our focus.

And Vietnam? Vietnam was a french territory that wanted independence.

The only reason we went to Vietnam was to appease our french buddies.

We had no business there, and just like Cuba and others, they did not go commie until they absolutely had to.

(Because of the threat of the US)

Brute force is very much a part of the human condition. It may be one of the only truly distinctive, and most embarrassing traits, that we do possess.

But I believe that one of the laws of mastery contends that this behavior must be abolished, or at the very least, put on a tight leash.

And last but not least, I have never met a crazy person, but, I have met people that society has MADE crazy.

But, who do you blame?

[yazoo]

[IntrepidEZJ]

I love the story of how Gandhi showed a small example to the warring Muslims and Hindus.

He brought all of the adults out in one village, and showed them something simple and so, so profound.

He brought the little kids together, and despite all of the diffrences of the ADULTS, the kids played, and saw no diffrences as Hindu played with Muslim.

The diffrences of those adults, that hated each other, melted that day.

[sara]

if people will not fight for freedom they always stay slaves, if you want to be free you must fight evil first, evil is the one who likes to be above you,
who will brainwash you to believe that you are not capable to think on your own, who doesn't respect you as a free being. isn't that what Islam teaches?


_________________
“When one is connected above,’’ he said
quietly, “he does not fall below.”
OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK...

[Don Quixote]

first question :-
Does any nation , race , religion or creed have the RIGHT to dictate to another or decide what sort of government they should follow ?

when did God , Allah , Buddah , Shiva or the great ' Whatever' appear in a cloud and declare that the USA are racialy superior to everyone else and that they have the 'God given right' to dictate to the whole world ?

did i miss something?i dont remember that.

second :-
When hitler and stalin tried to do what the USA is now doing , what did we say about them ?

we said that the whole world was right to oppose these evil regimes.even the USA joined in eventualy (towards the end,when it was all over! US and british financial and corporate backing put hitler in power in the first place!!!)

THIRD :- What is the purpose of projecting military power into a region.???

ANS :- WAR IS THE CONTINUATION OF BUSINESS BY OTHER MEANS. FACT.!

the 'allies' are attacking Iraq to protect the CORPORATE interests of BPand EXXON/MOBILE.

that is why more than 2000 young American kids have died.
that is why 38,000 Iraq'i civilians have been butchered.

all the rest is a lot of hysterical , flag-waving bullsh1t.

DONT BELIEVE ME?easy.sit back for a while and imagine the tables were reversed.imagine some foreign power is bombing your house and slaughtering your kids!imagine your taps have no water , your shops have no food , your hospitals have no medicine , your kids have no schools and your country has been reduced from a modern industrial nation to a third-world 'killing-zone' living in the dark ages.

if someone did that to America , how would you feel ?

if some foreign power decided they didn't like your government and that it had to be removed in the name of 'democracy and freedom' would that be ok ?

no ? so what makes it ok for britain or america to dictate to other nations.to attack other nations and slaughter their children.

can someone PLEASE explain why we have the right to attack ANY other nation.i am stupid and i cant see the justification.

isnt' that the kind of fascism we all opposed in WW2.?isn't that why we opoosed 'communism'.

is it through fear that we all lie to ourselves and convince ourselves that we are on the side of justice.that we are on the side of God.

arent WE the fascists now?!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."

-Martin Luther King, Jr.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
aye , and theres the rub.whether it be nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles , and by opposing so end them.....

-(my appologies to will shakespear for the appaulingly bad quote.)

[IntrepidEZJ]

Some lack "theory of mind"

Otherwise called empathy.

[sara]

if some foreign power decided they didn't like your government and that it had to be removed in the name of 'democracy and freedom' would that be ok ?


sure that will be ok, if they will make the war on drugs and people stop.
if they change to the libraterian government that would be great.

...people who are sick... or need cannabis to improve their well being should be getting it for free and not go to prison, if that can change by foreign forces and if health food will be subsidized by the new govenment then, right on!
let them come and change it for more freedom like in Poland and other east european
countries or africa.

I don't believe in "God order to kill" if there is a "God"then she /he will have better things to do , and if He/she would like to have some people killed
then there are other ways like flue or aids, Katrina, tsunami or even an heart attack.

some people will appriciate a war for more freedom and some wouldn't.
we are not all the same. look back at the american civil war.
_________________
“When one is connected above,’’ he said
quietly, “he does not fall below.”
OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK...

[Don Quixote]

actualy brother Yazoo and sister Sara both raise a very good point here.

what do you do if your country is attacked by a foreign power ?

do you take arms against the aggressor , fighting fire with fire ?

are there other means by which a military aggressor can be resisted ?should we even resist ?

it is my belief that , as part of the human family , we all have a moral obligation to oppose ANY abuses of individual human rights or freedoms which occur in ANY part of this world.

however , i also have seen that 'voilence begets voilence' hatred and anger only breed hatred and anger.

Every human being on earth has a basic , fundamental right to life.whoever we are , whatever we believe we all have the basic right to live.

as for an individual human beings right to self determination i would say this :-if , for example , Saddams Iraqi government was rotten and corrupt then only the Iraqi people THEMSELVES have a right to remove that government.NO other nation on earth has that right.

in the US war of independance the American people were resisting aggression from a foreign power.it is NOT the American people who were in the wrong.it was the British state.because the were projecting military power against another country.

HOWEVER.those people were not Americans.they were European settlers.a lot of them were british.real Americans were the indigenous people or the 'American Indians' as they are mistakenly called.by that measure , the only people with a right to rule over America is the people who belong there.

furthermore the REAL Americans (the ones that were there 40,000 years ago) were right to resist being exterminated by a bunch of savages from Europe.

the above , simplified argument demonstrates why i am a pacifist.in a situation such as that above who is right or wrong.??

that is why i am with brother IntrepidEZJ on this one.the minute you start killing people you are in the wrong.there is NO justification for destroying life.NO human being on earth has a right to make that judgement.

as for medicine and curing the sick :- all medicines should be given free of charge or at cost.there should be no commerce involved.how do people and corporations profiteer from sickness and disease.it is obscene.totaly wrong.

right.anyone who is not offended by the above , please PM. me and i will make sure to offend you in my next post.

hey ...
'you can offend some of the people all of the time
you can offend all of the people some of the time
but you cannot offend all the people all the time'.....

i mean...i do try , but i am only human.


Peace.
pacive resistance.
justice.

.

[sara]

The Dutch didn't resist the Germans, but we do have independence day!
_________________
“When one is connected above,’’ he said
quietly, “he does not fall below.”
OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK...