the debate

Rev.B.S.Whitaker · Cannabis Sacrament Minister Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 25

I was wondering what is everybody's beef on this site. i personaly beleive in many, many, prophets and messengers including the likes of John the Baptiste (yohan) and Jesus(eshoa). I however am not christian and do not beleive that anyone who would call them self a christian have any idea of what the message of Jesus(Eashoa) is really about. after all "christian" is a term given to the follwers of jesus( eshoa) by their roman oppresors, and was given so in a derogitory manner. I, like ferre do not care for the dogma and evangalizing. I feel in line with most of the Ideas of shaminism or whatever the plural of shaman is, but I do have some qestions, they are mainly diriected at Ferre, though anyone may answear:
1. Are you competly against ALL ideas and beleifs in the abrhamic lines of religion (ex:Juduisam, Christian, muslim, Rastafari,Nazarite.) Or do you appreciate any of the values in thier positive message and mainly disagree witht the dogma?
2.is it OK to post anything taken from these faiths as long as it is not condescending or should we ignore them completly?
3. I see the word shaman being thrown around on the global community but to whom is it reffering to? I live in the heart of native lands and am surrounded by reservations, I tallk daily with natives from several tribes,(Hopi, Denai(navajo), apache, arapaho and more) they all view the term "Shaman" as flase, corny and something derived by the "White Man"as a generic term to describe healers in their nation. Within the University setting that I recently Graduated from the term Shaman is typically used to describe South American Healers or "Medicine Men". but I get the sense you are using it to mean "a spiritual healer, practiced in herbal medicine and holistic care"
4. for a cannabis ministry I do not see a lot of discusion about Cannabis other than bickering about what to call it. so lets stop bickering over semantics and assanine theology and start praising the Herbs that we can all agree upon. I for one would like to see more in the Sacred Garden chat as well as more on the spiritualy uplifting effects, I think everyone should start by stating their favorite strain (or strain of the week,day ect.) for getting Irie(spiritual) and describe what about that strain "does it for you". peace and live up, to one and all !!!!!! [/i]

Pepper · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject:

My definition of a christ is "anointed". Christians are people who are anointed. The problems start when people evangelize to non-christians that they need to be saved, to see the light, to come out of the darkness, to avoid eternal punishment in Hell.
I consider shamanism as the direct experience of spiritual knowledge and unique to every person.
_________________
We will succeed unless we quit.

Rev. Steven Wilson · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: Hmmmmmmmmm

I agree Rev.B.S. I have a fear of posting due to the ban on dogma.

Dogma (the plural is either dogmata or dogmas, Greek δόγμα, plural δόγματα) is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization, thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed or doubted

The word dogma (Gr. dogma from dokein) signifies, in the writings of the ancient classical authors, sometimes, an opinion or that which seems true to a person; sometimes, the philosophical doctrines or tenets, and especially the distinctive philosophical doctrines, of a particular school of philosophers (cf. Cic. Ac., ii, 9), and sometimes, a public decree or ordinance, as dogma poieisthai.

Under definition ANY belief is dogma, even this.

http://www.thc-ministry.net/cannabis-sacrament.htm

So that leaves all judgment and decisions to be left with the moderators and their beliefs and view of fair, just and tolerable treatment. I must add that this IS their board and what anybody else thinks really is illrelevent. But I would like to know what they think, maybe with examples of what is and isn’t acceptable rather than just a blanket statement subject to differing views of interpitation.
_________________
Once a man sees his immortality, there is no turning back. He is on the Quest of Knowledge whether he knows it or wants it. He can fight against it and live a turbulent life. Or follow it and find inner peace.

Peace and flowers
Rev. Steven Wilson
(Shaman Quester)

David · Bard Joined: 28 Sep 2003 Posts: 1261

Rev.B.S

I have no authourity and I am not the founder or co-founder, but this would be my answers.

1) The Abrhramic bible is a book, the most famous book, but just a book, How to live in the year zero. Lots of other books give out good messages too!! Lets not look stupid and follow a book. ( I say lets take of one sleeper and hold up the gauze)

2) I am sure you can post what you like (look at what I post Embarassed

) as long as it makes sense to most members and does not leave you feeling like you wasted your time reading.

3) I am a practicing Druid so I don't want to answer this one.

4) All religions bicker, why should this one be different. we have no control over the important issues, so why not bicker over what we should call the stuff we use as sacrament. I think we should call it 'Dooby green stuff'.
At the moment I like Northern Lights, I smoke it before work and it make me smile. Its a nice uplifter and thinker!!!!!

**Ferre** · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:18 am Post subject:

I'try and give you the answers you ask from me and I think it will clear things up for those who still don't have a clue, despite the fact that I have explained this numerous times in previous posts on these issues.

**Ferre** · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Hmmmmmmmmm

Rev. Steven Wilson · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:25 am Post subject:

O.K. so we are on the same page for the most part. I must agree with your points although I would have gone about it in a differant way. Personaltiy expression differs from one person to next.

One last question from the peanut gallery:

Is the dogma of this ministry that I posted compleate? Or is there more to it and where is it if so. I would like to read it.
_________________
Once a man sees his immortality, there is no turning back. He is on the Quest of Knowledge whether he knows it or wants it. He can fight against it and live a turbulent life. Or follow it and find inner peace.

Peace and flowers
Rev. Steven Wilson
(Shaman Quester)

PopeBobtheFirst · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:39 am Post subject:

**Ferre** · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:22 am Post subject:

Nachtschattenreich · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject:

Well I´m pretty dogmatic on Cannabis too... this positive understanding of dogma is interesting in regard to the question whether a church should declare Cannabis as mandatory to its members to establish a strong ideological defenseline against the prohibition. While I do not expect my Church to excommunicate these who are not interested in the unique herb, I am aware that anything that could be interpreted as downsizing it to a minor side matter to the faith may result in negotiating away an essential for some foul compromise. The Cannabis Dogma can be a bolt to prevent such a scenario without having to take a risk to end up with a rootless single-issue religion.

A Shaman in my understanding is a person who has learned to master the teacher plants. Teacher plants do not mind about your affiliation in any human caste system, they only respect the attitude with which you go into the semantic no-man´s land beyond humanity´s current frontier. In the broader context the term may include all these who directly or indirectly rely upon Shamans for their spiritual wellbeing. Talk about active and passive Shamans. My Cannabis Dogma puts me into this category as well, even though my Christian faith is rooted beyond highmoor archeology.

I take the Cannabis strains I can get, if I get them identified, clandestine gardening does not fit in with my way of life. I also like it if my Cannabis has seen the Sun, and like to know from which spot of the planet it did. Maybe I will get through a couple of Sacred Plants in a wellspirited neck of the woods.

Rev. Steven Wilson · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject:

Rev.B.S.Whitaker · Cannabis Sacrament Minister Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 25

Thanks for answering my post, I know this has been a hot topic and has been addressed by you before, but since I can't walk down to my local THC Ministry Church/convention hall and talk with someone this is the next best thing. I know I could have just sifted through all the old posts looking for these answears but my off-line life keeps me far to busy. I appreciate you taking the time to administer advice, after all Thats why I joined the THC ministry, I can practice my own spirituality no matter what but it's nice to have others to talk with about it. Comming from one of the founding Ministers/Shaman's it shall be the final word on the subject( I hope). anyway if anyone else brings up these isssues or violates the evangalizing "code" then this post can remain as your final word on the matter. I again want to make it clear that I do not sympathize with the evangalist's or cosider my self a christian(I have much more in common with Mahayana Bhuddism and local tribal religion), but i have garnered usful knowledge from the abrhamic lines that has been helpful on my own spirtual journy. Thanks to one all who have replied to this post. Now let the issue lay at rest.

Peace, and live up !!!!!

**Ferre** · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Thnaks Ferre

**Brother Adam** · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:50 am Post subject:

I only wish I could answer as eloquently as Bro. Ferre has. A praise to him, this place, and all the people! bigok

_________________
-Brother Adam (we are all one family)

“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”

-James Madison

Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.