Speech on religious cannabis use at MMM London.

**Ferre** · Last edited by Ferre on Sat May 21, 2005 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

brother Paul Farnhill, who is one of the founders of the Cannabis Assembly has made a very well worded speech at the MMM in London.

Listen to it here:
http://www.ukcia.org/mp3_2/London05/rev_paul.mp3 (.mp3 file)

Great speech! Razz

_________________
█ Please read the Board Rules and Posting, and you
█ Radio Free Amsterdam
People who know truth, speak truth.
Those who don't, quote scriptures.

**Fyrefly1** · Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject:

It is a great speech!

I went right over there and joined... Smile

_________________
Fyrefly1
"All truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, 19th Century Philosopher

Echo · Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject:

I was impressed by Reverend Paul's speech too.

Well put!
_________________

**Ferre** · Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject:

You can listen to all the speeches at the London MMM here:

http://www.ukcia.org/library/London05.htm

I wanted to highlite brother Paul's speech first. Smile

_________________
█ Please read the Board Rules and Posting, and you
█ Radio Free Amsterdam
People who know truth, speak truth.
Those who don't, quote scriptures.

RogerChristie · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 9:22 am Post subject: Bravo, Rev. Paul! By the way...

Hello there on this almost full moon night,

Aloha. A fine speech, Rev. Paul. Terrific, really. Talk about 'sincere'. I'm happy to know that the brother was a member here for a few years a while back.

On a related matter, Rev. Paul has decided to go 'out on his own' and develop the "Cannabis Assembly" in the U.K. Super! I know he means well and I wish him all the success in the world.

That said, however, I apparently pissed him off for some reason that he hasn't communicated to me about (that I'm conscious of). This could be better, in my opinion. God, that's great! Please show me the blessing in here ... and hurry!

Now to the somewhat touchy issue: the "intellectual property" rights, or trademark, on "his" Sanctuary sign and member statement. Is this how we in the cannabis culture are to treat each other, or is this more how we would expect our 'opponents' to treat us? When I asked him specifically about this, man-to-man, he said, "sue me".

Paul reminded me that he asked me for permision to develop the Sanctuary sign and member statement for the EU members of the THC Ministry a few years ago. I gave it. He did the work with brother sibannac, I think, and they did a fine job. Now he's using these documents for his CA and putting a copyright sign and copy notice on them as if he invented them - with zero credit or link to our organization. He also gives 'us' or more directly me, a little zinger or "fuck you" by implying that documents like these 'are free to the world and there is zero reason to donate for them to anyone'. Hmmm... It's food for thought, at the very least.

Paul is certainly entitled to his own opinion and I respectfully disagree on this specific point. Documents with zero 'backing' are just that. I haven't known them to work, ever - vs. our documents that DO work under arrest conditions many times and, in my opinion, have effectively demonstrated their "value".

Yes, I'll say it here and anywhere: my goal is for a world where the THC Ministry is NOT needed ever again to protect spiritual enjoyers of cannabis. The sooner you or I don't need identification, legitimacy or "backing" for our cannabis, the better.

I'm all for education and personal empowerment and going one's own way in life, or in ministry. I recommend it, actually! It makes me think of the old saying, "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery". ???

I've learned from many people and I'm pleased to give credit where credit is due - whenever I'm conscious enough to do so. I think I may have missed giving credit to some important folk(s) along my way as this issue now is in MY face in the form of Rev. Paul 'doing it' to me.

I'm rambling a bit here and don't quite know how to deal with the matter, if I 'should' deal with it at all. I guess I'm looking for some 'group think' on this issue. Any ideas out there? Mahalo.

All the very best to everyone,

Roger

###

sibannac · Cannabis Sacrament Minister Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 456

In reply to Roger and as a founder member of the cannabis assembly along with Paul.
My self and Paul spent a lot of time and effort in trying to word doc's for this site/organisation to use.
But due to lack of interest from Hawaii at the time and other moral issues that i will not discuss further we left.
We did howver take our re wording with us to further re-word.
Now it seems Roger is unhappy with our free docs being similar to his. So after discussion between Paul and myself.
The documents have been totally reworked to distance the assembly from the thc ministry.
I hope that puts an end to this bickering.
Roger you didn't piss anyone off you just don't have a clue about the UK or European cannabis culture and were not prepared to listen to those that are active within europe.
Plus you are far to one sided towards christianity, which again may be ok for a country like america, but has no use outside its borders.
Shame that, otherwise the speech Paul made might have been in representing the thc ministry instead of our own cannabis assembly.

I wish you well in your own battle within the USA but please don't tell europeans what or how to fight their battles, you have NO idea whats involved.

Peace and good luck

zero · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 11:06 am Post subject:

sibannac · Cannabis Sacrament Minister Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 456

**Ferre** · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject:

May I add that I fail to see why the documents provided by THC Ministry would have a different 'value' than the documents provided by Cannabis Assembly.

What matters is that our members are in possesion of the documents that contain THE INTERNATIONAL LAW. Who supplies those documents is totally irrelevant and does not make a person carrying "official THC Ministry documents" more legal or officially recognized than anyone who produces the same documents from another source. Afterall the only source that matters is International law.

As a matter of fact I am working on a new site that will have all the needed documents free for download as well and our brothers from Cannabis Assembly have contributed on the wording and content of those documents.

Funny thing is that brother Paul and Peter have left the THC Ministry for the same reason I have been tempted to leave many times as well in the past. I didn't leave but am working on changes.
_________________
█ Please read the Board Rules and Posting, and you
█ Radio Free Amsterdam
People who know truth, speak truth.
Those who don't, quote scriptures.

Stokes · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject:

Group Think ... I like it.

Has any THC minister knowledgable in European law ever made an attempt at creating the kind of 'support' or 'value' for Europeans that exists for Americans with the THC Ministry's sanctuary kit? ... If not, why could this not have been done under the global THCMinistry name?

I'm really getting sick and tired of hearing people talk shit on Roger Christie.

The man has done nothing but try to help people who have been persecuted, arrested, and prosecuted ... are there people who have been arrested in Europe that Roger has refused to support? I doubt it, and if there were - it's probably only due to his unfamiliarity with European law. Roger doesn't pretend to know European law ... yet we're supposed to believe that international law will be honored in a U.S. court? ... It's a joke.

What I find even more pathetic than all of the disparaging remarks toward Roger, America, and Christianity from European members are those Americans who continue to work against the THC Ministry while still being allowed to call themselves Elders of our ministry or Moderators on this forum.

In particular, an American moderator on this forum (who someday may need Roger's support along with the 'value' that comes with the sanctuary kit), who has the audacity to post a link on this forum offering "Free Sanctuary Kits - No Waiting ... Click Here" from a knock-off ministry. What a shameful and disrespectful act against this ministry and Roger - perpetrated no less, by one of our own Elders/Moderators. How fucked up is that?

I'll bet there are more non-Christian American ministers here than Christian ones ... and I'm one them. Why have some Europeans and American moderators created such a stigma against Christians on this forum? ... we are supposed to be a multi-faith ministry - remember?

My suggestion would be that if it's such an embarrassment for any Europeans to be associated with the THC Ministry, whose most significant founding member happens to be an American Christian, then remove the social pressure and disassociate yourself now. And don't forget to take those American ministers along with you that have yet to figure out that nobody from Europe is gonna do a damn thing for them in the event of their cannabis arrest in the U.S.

Unfortunately, the reality here is that international laws don't mean a thing in the U.S. court system. We are not proud of this fact, but nobody should be fooled into thinking that they do - especially Americans. Remember, the majority of American THC ministers simply do not fit the 'Christian Idiot' mold that's been created here by some Europeans and supported by a few 'suck-ass' moderators.

Sorry if my belief in the 'respect for ALL religions' has again offended anyone.

Stokes
_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Where love is, there God is also.

-Mahatma Gandhi

**Ferre** · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject:

Stokes · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject:

Pepper · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject:

I do see the value that the THC ministry documents have to the ministry. It is the donations collected for providing the documents that finances the ministry. I have also seen that Roger does provide free kits to those whose circumstances would make a donation an undue hardship.

I think I understand that International Law and respect for human rights is the foundation of the legal defense in Europe. The fear I have as an observer is that EU constitution is moving to destroy the sovereignty of individual nations. The European Union will be asked to weigh the rights of the individuals against national security. The Dutch in particular have the most freedoms to lose in the quest for regional homogeny. I hope I'm wrong on this one.

If the question is between International Law and individual rights then I'd rather hang onto the right of self determination, if I can.

RogerChristie · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 7:34 pm Post subject: It's a worthy topic of discussion

Hello everyone,

Aloha. The value or lack thereof in our documents is a worthy topic of discussion and I'm (mostly) pleased to see the comments about it.

What's a person to do? I'm truly open to ANY ideas that seem to be effective and sound.

I've developed a method of providing our services and sacraments to the world, IF a person wants them. I just ask a bit of mutual respect in return. Sometimes that "respect" is a cash donation, sometimes it's just a story told to me about lack of finances. Either way, I accept it and move-on providing more services and more sacraments to more people. It seems pretty fair to me. If it's not fair to you, or to anyone else, please let me know how and why and I'll listen intently to your comments.

To prevent "ministry mal-practice" I stand behind my documents and even willingly testify on-the-record, in court, under penalty of perjury and jail when called upon. It's an honor and a rush and it seems to work well for all concerned. Where's the "scam" in any of this? I truly want to know.

I sincerely appreciate all the times Ferre or anyone else has defended me or our ministry on internet forums or wherever. If anyone (Ferre) gets tired of doing this I think I am capable and would appreciate the link so that I can speak for myself. Thanks for your past efforts and thanks for the future, too.

Ferre wrote: "To be honest I am sick and tired defending Roger's document business on other forums, every single time someone posts about THC Ministry on the internet there are comments about us being a scam to get money from potheads, many times I have been accused of exploiting the fact that cannabis is illegal by "selling religious defence documents" and that is not something that adds to our credibility now is it?"

We can take it, bro. Our credibility is strengthened by such controversy, in my opinion. How? Because I think that I have provided for the needs every single person who has ever asked me or us for 'help'. That might be the answer to anyone who questions my or our sincerity and value. Does that sound like a solid answer, or not?

Ferre wrote: "Just do a seach for THC Ministry on overgrow, you will find lots of accusations about us being a scam and many of those critics are reasonable."

Excuse me? "Many of those critics are reasonable"? Really? I'm not consciously aware of even one reasonable critic. Please clue me in here, Partner, and either I'll learn something valuable or hopefully 'they' will.

Ferre wrote: "There's nothing wrong about the sanctuary kit and it is worth the $$ and that goes for the healing oil as well but paying for legal documents should be an option, not by default."

Interesting point there. Thanks for offering it as a possibility. Most of you, including Ferre, have not even seen the newest version of the Sanctuary kit. It's heavy! It's more colorful and it rocks, in my opinion. It's SO much more than a Sanctuary sign and an id card that you really don't, and can't, know what you're talking about here. I do accept the honesty of your feelings and I'm always open to change. It's an idea I have had hundreds of times. If the documents didn't contain my State license number (which is revokable for cause) and my signature (which represents my "revokable" life:) then maybe they would be worth zero $? I wonder...

It's a beautiful full moon morning here. I'm flying back to Maui to work in an hour or so and I wish each and everyone of you a terrific day, wherever you are.

I - hopefully - won't be doing this service forever. Trust me, there are plenty of other things I want to do on this planet while I'm in this Earth-suit. It's my effort to assist cannabis culture people everywhere in the best way I know how under these times of extreme prejudice and extreme prohibition.

We ARE effective. Our track record speaks very well for that. We have zero people that have fallen through the cracks, that I know of. ZERO! That's amazing in itself. Isn't it? Hell, yes, it is.

I want everyone of us to succeed - with your dreams and with your work. If you want to do your own ministry and give away your own brand of documents and help to free cannabis people - super! Do it. :-} I know exactly what it takes. I give away documents every single day and have for over eight years. Thousands of them! It's all good.

Thanks for the group mind on this. Thanks for your mind on this. Mahalo.

All the very best to you,

Love, Roger

###

sibannac · Cannabis Sacrament Minister Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 456

Actually we are lucky enough to have a very good cannabis and human right solicitor as a fully fledged member if you listen to all the speechs you will hear one from Richard Parry.
Oh and yes he's representing me in the EU courts for free, and no legal aid.
I would like to thank Ferre for his kind words i'vs always held the greatest respect for him.