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john s revealer
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Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Carolina
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 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Ferre wrote: |
From where I look at it, all abrahamic scripture believers/followers are mentally and intellectually challenged.
You have to be a real dumbo to believe any of that crap, and you need to be even a bigger retard to sit and accept a bunch of pedophiles to call you sheep and tell you how to live. ("you" as in generally speaking, not pointing any fingers) |
According to a much-discussed survey reported in the journal Nature in 1997, 40 percent of biologists, physicists and mathematicians said they believed in God - and not just a nonspecific transcendental presence but, as the survey put it, a God to whom one may pray "in expectation of receiving an answer."
"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." (Albert Einstein)
"Isaac Newton wrote a lot more about the Bible than the laws of nature,"
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| The Abrahamic scriptures teach you nothing about spirituality, teach you nothing about nature, do not tell you to educate yourself (the word education is non existing in that book) All they teach you is to live in a big lie and obey the leaders, and to be called sheep |
knowledge and wisdom is often mentioned
this is from the Apocrypha not to be found in the Protestant Bible but in Jewish scripture
Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach) you will see the fillowing verse: Sirach 38:4 "The Lord hath created medicines out of the earth; and he that is wise will not abhor them."
In a study of 4,000 older Americans (age 65 to 102), researchers at Duke University School of Medicine found that those who attended church at least once a week were half as likely to be depressed as those who attended religious services less frequently. Other studies have shown that religiously inclined people over 60 are healthier and lived longer than those who are less spiritual.
Your post by Dr.Melemede is based on Thermodynamic and the second law of thermodynamics entrophy state that all things are moving to a state of disorder .
The second law is in direct opposition to the mathematical predictability of the universe.
Science can nether prove nor can it disprove the existance of deities.
Wars of religion have always existed millions of Christian and jews died at the hands of pagans and the reverse is true too. I am a gnostic [Gnosis means knowledge]and the master left us with only one comandment to love our neigbhor as we love our selves'
There are over 5000 registered members on this forum yet only a hand full actively post here. And in the almost year that I have been here I ve seen it slowly dwindeling ,How many I wonder are no longer here because of the insults and hostility they precieve. |
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prntrkmt
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 515
Location: southern California
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| john s revealer wrote: |
| In a study of 4,000 older Americans (age 65 to 102), researchers at Duke University School of Medicine found that those who attended church at least once a week were half as likely to be depressed as those who attended religious services less frequently. Other studies have shown that religiously inclined people over 60 are healthier and lived longer than those who are less spiritual. |
There are also studies that show the opposite.
And in the U.S. those persons who consider themselves to be atheist, agnostic, or non-religious donate more than double the percentage of their income to charitable purposes than do those wh consider themselves to be evangelical Christians.
| john s revealer wrote: |
Your post by Dr.Melemede is based on Thermodynamic and the second law of thermodynamics entrophy state that all things are moving to a state of disorder .
The second law is in direct opposition to the mathematical predictability of the universe. |
Rudolf Clausius stated the second law of thermodynamics as "In an isolated system, a process can occur only if it increases the total entropy of the system."
And you underestimate the power of mathematics. Math can predict systems of infinite complexity.
| john s revealer wrote: |
| Wars of religion have always existed millions of Christian and jews died at the hands of pagans and the reverse is true too. |
Wars of religion did not exist until Sumeria. The first war ever recorded was the battle between Sumer and Elam in 2700 B.C.E. Wars didn't exist until after the existence of the first agricultural settlements.
The only times that millions of Jews have died at the hands of anyone has been at the hands of Christians -- not at the hands of pagans. When the Roman Empire was pagan, it did carry out wars against Israel, but in none of those wars were millions of Jews killed.
There have been no cases that I know of where millions of Christians were killed by pagans, even including religious wars started by the Christians.
There have been millions of Hellenists killed by Christians.
There have been millions of Muslims killed by Christians.
There have been millions of Christians killed by Muslims.
The Christian-Islamic dichotomy is the only one that actually exists. These two religions are the two most violent religions in all of history.
There have been millions of Jews killed by Christians.
There have been millions of Zoarastrians killed by Muslims.
There have been millions of Hindus killed by Muslims.
There have been millions of Witches killed by Christians.
There have been millions of Catholics killed by other Christians.
There have been millions of Protestants killed by other Christians.
There have been millions of Orthodox killed by other Christians.
| john s revealer wrote: |
| I am a gnostic [Gnosis means knowledge]and the master left us with only one comandment to love our neigbhor as we love our selves' |
There have been millions of Gnostic Christians killed by other Christians.
Gnosticism first split off from Hermeticism around 700 B.C.E.
The earliest surviving Gnostic writings are from 350 B.C.E.
Paul made up the myth of Jesus late in the first century of the Common Era and claimed that Jesus was the Christ.
The early Gnostics believed that the Christ was a perfect spiritual only being. They believed that the physical world was inherently fallen and sinful. The Gnostics used secret knowledge to reach the Christ on a spiritual level. The Gnostics believed that the Christ could only exist on the spiritual level because if the Christ was to enter the physical realm, then the Christ would be tainted and become fallen also.
These views very much clashed with Paul's new version of Christianity, which borrowed not just from Gnostic Christianity, but also borrowed from Hellenism, Zoarastrianism, Mithraism, Kemeticism, Hermeticism, and other major religions of the day (and even borrowed from an obscure bull worship cult of his home town of Tarsus).
The existence of a well established form of Christianity for centuries prior to the supposed birth of Jesus (which is actually a direct rip-off of the myth of the birth of Mithra) presented problems for the Paulinist Christians.
The solution of the Paulinist Christians was a campaign of terror lasting for centuries in which the Paulinists attempted to murder every Gnostic in existence.
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Brother Adam
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 1915
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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As far as pagans attacking christians:
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| Christians used false accusations that the pagan Greeks killed Christians at their temples during ritualistic sacrifices to justify much religious persecution and blood shed |
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| "Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." (Albert Einstein) |
Religion is a heavily weighted word. I think spirituality fits better here simply because a typical "religion" denotes a set way of thinking. Spirituality allows us to explore within and without ourselves without presupposing an unsubstantiated deity into it anywhere, which is a much more open minded, unbiased, and scientific way to view things.
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-Brother Adam (we are all one family)
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”
-James Madison
Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face. |
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prntrkmt
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 515
Location: southern California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Brother Adam wrote: |
| Religion is a heavily weighted word. I think spirituality fits better here simply because a typical "religion" denotes a set way of thinking. Spirituality allows us to explore within and without ourselves without presupposing an unsubstantiated deity into it anywhere, which is a much more open minded, unbiased, and scientific way to view things. |
Note that I am NOT a lawyer.
My understanding is that the U.S. courts interpret the first amendment guarantee of freedom of religion (including the definition as expanded by Congress in the RFRA and RLUIPA) only applies to "religion" and does NOT apply to spirituality, philosophy, or lifestyle.
While I would not recommend that anyone be arrested, if one is arrested for cannabis religion in the U.S. then it is vitally important that the activity be religion.
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Mystic Power
admin THC-Ministry YahooGroup
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 3605
Location: Key West
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| U.S. courts interpret the first amendment guarantee of freedom of religion (including the definition as expanded by Congress in the RFRA and RLUIPA) only applies to "religion" and does NOT apply to spirituality, philosophy, or lifestyle. |
Alas, I believe this to be true...and have seen it stated as such in court documents.
Follow Your Bliss,
Ben
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Brother Adam
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 1915
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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I know that to be true, but I don't give two shits honestly. I'm tired of the idea of playing semantics games with the courts. Spirituality is part of a religiously held belief and the two go hand in hand. Anyway, if I ever get the knock at the door I might just pull an Ed and Elaine Brown: "give me liberty or give me death". I'm not about to let a kangaroo court and a corrupt system step all over me and my beliefs simply because of how I might choose to word something or because I prefer the term spirituality over a structured dogmatic word like religion...
I'm at the point I don't even care anymore. I know the system is totally corrupt. It doesn't matter what you say they will just do you like Meyer's case most likely and say that your religion is just a philosophy or way of life and convict you anyway. The lawyer judge will tell the jury they can only decide the facts of the case as given to them by him and the prosecutor, and that they can not judge the law which is a direct contradiction to the whole idea of jury trials.
From this point forward, I am not going to worry myself with convincing a corrupt court that my beliefs are not for them to judge. They already know that part.
It's funny. When you tell a person face to face that your beliefs are NONE of their business, they don't push it any further because they know this to be a fact. When you tell it to our corrupt courts, they laugh and judge your life for you.
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-Brother Adam (we are all one family)
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”
-James Madison
Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face. |
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prntrkmt
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 515
Location: southern California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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I understand and share your anger.
Are we all too scattered to use the non-violent protest approach?
If we could get a large number of cannabis religion adherents (preferably from a broad cross section of different religious beliefs) together in one place on federal land and engage in religious ritual (realizing that there would be a great deal of variety of religious ritual to match the different beliefs) and force them to engage in mass arrest.
Right now all the cases are isolated and the media doesn't pay anything more than passing attention (generally charaterized as a "stoner nut").
But it would be difficult to ignore thousands or tens of thousands of people being simultaneously arrested.
| Brother Adam wrote: |
I know that to be true, but I don't give two shits honestly. I'm tired of the idea of playing semantics games with the courts. Spirituality is part of a religiously held belief and the two go hand in hand. Anyway, if I ever get the knock at the door I might just pull an Ed and Elaine Brown: "give me liberty or give me death". I'm not about to let a kangaroo court and a corrupt system step all over me and my beliefs simply because of how I might choose to word something or because I prefer the term spirituality over a structured dogmatic word like religion...
I'm at the point I don't even care anymore. I know the system is totally corrupt. It doesn't matter what you say they will just do you like Meyer's case most likely and say that your religion is just a philosophy or way of life and convict you anyway. The lawyer judge will tell the jury they can only decide the facts of the case as given to them by him and the prosecutor, and that they can not judge the law which is a direct contradiction to the whole idea of jury trials.
From this point forward, I am not going to worry myself with convincing a corrupt court that my beliefs are not for them to judge. They already know that part.
It's funny. When you tell a person face to face that your beliefs are NONE of their business, they don't push it any further because they know this to be a fact. When you tell it to our corrupt courts, they laugh and judge your life for you. |
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Brother Adam
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Not a bad idea. When, tomorrow?
Seriously think about it though. 99.99% of people when met face to face, mano e mano, on the street, and told "my beliefs are none of YOUR business" they will NOT push it any further, EVER. Most will simply agree "you're right, it's not", but for some reason that my mind is not feeble enough to fathom; it is just fine and dandy for those same people to judge your beliefs using the power of the courts.
I fear mankind is not going to fair well unless we shed this immense amount of ignorance on this and SO many other topics, and damn fast. It's like the quickening, except the level of sheer stupidity increases faster than technology does.
_________________
-Brother Adam (we are all one family)
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”
-James Madison
Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face. |
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Grannymouse
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 128
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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One large group together. Good idea. However, a one-time peaceful event will not last long in average Joe's memory banks. I mean, jog my memory, but how long has it been since Woodstock? Not that i mean that Woodstock has been forgotten, but that it sorta snuck up on the powers...and i don't think that 'they' are likely to let it happen again. "They" would 'allow' a forest fire to happen, rather than allow a great 'uncontrolled' gathering.
NO, i don't advocate violent acts. But there would need to be MUCH in the lines of 'follow up', lest a good idea be trumped by whatever black news that could be drummed up to have an eclipsing effect.
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prntrkmt
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 515
Location: southern California
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Grannymouse wrote: |
One large group together. Good idea. However, a one-time peaceful event will not last long in average Joe's memory banks. I mean, jog my memory, but how long has it been since Woodstock? Not that i mean that Woodstock has been forgotten, but that it sorta snuck up on the powers...and i don't think that 'they' are likely to let it happen again. "They" would 'allow' a forest fire to happen, rather than allow a great 'uncontrolled' gathering.
NO, i don't advocate violent acts. But there would need to be MUCH in the lines of 'follow up', lest a good idea be trumped by whatever black news that could be drummed up to have an eclipsing effect. |
How long ago was the Montgomery non-violent protest led by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.? They didn't like that one either. They arrested hundreds of protesters.
How long ago was the Salt Satyagraha (or Salt March to Delhi) led by Mahatma Ghandi? They didn't liek that one either. They killed literally thousands of unarmed women.
I realize that most protests are quickly forgotten and ignored.
I realize hat this isn't an easy goal to accomplish.
But I also realize that there are more than one million innocent Americans currently in prison for cannabis-related offenses.
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Grannymouse
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm very concerned about our brothers and sisters in prison!
Which would be more beneficial? Protesting at the prison gates or working through the courts? Which would be faster? Any other means (legally?) to accomplish all that we would wish?
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Brother Adam
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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I severely doubt it, and I'm not just being a pessimist.
_________________
-Brother Adam (we are all one family)
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”
-James Madison
Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face. |
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prntrkmt
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 515
Location: southern California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Grannymouse wrote: |
I'm very concerned about our brothers and sisters in prison!
Which would be more beneficial? Protesting at the prison gates or working through the courts? Which would be faster? Any other means (legally?) to accomplish all that we would wish? |
Well I particpated (but did not organize) a protest at a federal building in LA. All of the local TV stations and local newspapers showed the protest. The person, a medical marijuana patient (not sure if I should be throwing his name out, so I won't), was found guilty of growing 4,000 plants and faced a long sentence. The federal judge, certainly persuaded by all the publicity, sentenced him ot only five years and let him serve that time on probation.
Not that being found guilty and having five years of probation is appropriate, but it was much better than the decades in prison the prosecutor sought.
That was just one person, which is a complete drop in the bucket, but it does show the power of a well timed and well publicized protest.
I am very much open to suggestions on what could be done on a larger scale. Maybe we can take advantage of the fact that we are all spread out by each starting a grass roots movement in our respective locations and coordinating on a national scale (or maybe international, including England and Germany).
What do you think might be truely effective?
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Brother Adam
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 1915
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| prntrkmt wrote: |
| What do you think might be truely effective? |
Realizing that our republic is defunct and taking steps to reestablish our constitutional republic as it should be with a much smaller, less powerful government, truly transparent with real public oversight and serious accountability.
To accept anything else would be unpatriotic. They called this a "redress of grievances" in the constitution....you know, that relic hemp document that people keep squeaking about.
_________________
-Brother Adam (we are all one family)
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”
-James Madison
Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face. |
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