I'll vote when America is a democracy again

**aeroplane**

To vote or not to vote...

I have voted at every election once I came of voting age and never once has the question of whether or not to vote crossed my mind. Until now.

Because of the Foley scandal and North Korea's new nuke, many of you might not have heard that congress just blindly passed a bill called the Military Commissions Act of 2006. This should have been the headline of every news worthy news agency in America, but even at rawstory.com it's a bit hard to find.

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 does not suspend habeas corpus (the cornerstone of democracy) and the Bill of Rights, it just does away with them all together. What they have done is layed the foundations for totalitarianism.

I can not make myself believe that this congress intends to give up their strangle hold on America. They're too power drunk and have too many secrets to keep hidden. What would stop them from stealing another election?

These bastards have made a mockery of democracy and I will not be a party to it.
_________________
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than the drug itself."

US President Jimmy Carter

**Brother Adam** · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject:

Sad as it may seem, we have never been a democracy. We are a constitutional republic. The same evils that made people flee from europe understood what this meant from the very beginning, and this is why they have been working quietly for over 200 years to gain control of our system of "representatives"......That entire system has been undermined from within.
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“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”

-James Madison

Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.

Rev. Steven Wilson · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject:

well said. And we need another revolution. Im stocking up on resistance how bout u?

Give me LIBERTY or give me death!!
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Once a man sees his immortality, there is no turning back. He is on the Quest of Knowledge whether he knows it or wants it. He can fight against it and live a turbulent life. Or follow it and find inner peace.

Peace and flowers
Rev. Steven Wilson
(Shaman Quester)

jessica · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject:

While I ynderstand your doubts and real fears, the "power hungry" want you to not vote. That is why the "Far Right Idealogues" have such a powerful voting block. They are a sure fire thing for showing up. Americans have for too long not voted and now look, and don't give me any history lessons, 9 out of 10 folks I talk to admit they do not vote. The MTV generation could make huge changes if they took an active part in our voting system, but alas they claim it serves no purpose. I believe in the power of the people. Ghandi made such a powerful impact, Martin Luther King Jr, but they did it with the people. We can make a difference, I feel that if you give up your last right, they you are admitting defeat, and nothing would make Busy boy and his Cronies happier. I mean no dissrespect to anyone here so please take my comments as a pep talk, don't give up, we are stronger than that. We here in this Ministry are made of sterner stuff. Very Happy

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Peace and Blessings to All,

Sister Jessica

**Ferre** · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject:

I also say vote!

But having said that, I also think it's not a good idea to vote for dems or reps, I think people should start voting on independent parties in the US. Create political opposition, that's very much needed. With political opposition representatives are forced to think about different angles to all kind of issues and that's very healthy for society. It brings back the dialogue between politics and the public.
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IntrepidEZJ · Cannabis Sacrament Minister Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 381

Political Opposition?

Heard of Cointelpro?

Vote?

When the machines are rigged?

Bush just stole 2 elections. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's quite real.

Revolution?

And then what?

Rishi · Cannabis Sacrament Minister Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 142

Sure, why not "vote".

Take the 2000 presidential elections for instance. Gore won the popular vote, but the Florida Supreme court ordered a stop to the recount of votes. The Supreme Court then ruled that "Bush won", and never mind the vote of the people.

Now we have electronic voting machines built by Diebold Inc. which are in essence no different than any personal computer, in that they can be re-programmed, hacked and otherwise tampered with without any paper trail and therefore no accountability.

The "vote" counts for nothing, or at best, next to nothing. The voting process is a left-over from a former time. It remains in place to give the warm and fuzzy illusion of democracy, when in fact the people have no real control of what goes on in this country. "Voting" is there to make it SEEM like this isn't a corpocracy/oligarchy, but we all know who really controls the media, the government, the "Representatives" and everybody/everything else...the ultra-wealthy.

I say "Why grovel to government to plead for a better life"? Why not just live a better life, regardless of the current system, which is rotten through and through, without single, truly redeeming characteristic?
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jessica · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:02 am Post subject:

I understand and agree with ya'll's frustrations, however please keep in mind that 100 years ago India was a British Colony, 70 years ago that Blacks couldn't vote, up until 1962 Lynching's were still happining in the US of A. Please remember that many things have changed because people used their "People Power" sheer volume of people and peaceful mass protests. I don't care how rigged the system is if only 90% of able "voters" actually voted, many things could occur. Only 20 years ago this Ministry was a glimmer in Rogers eye, we are making a difference. I will never abmit defeat to any thing on this Earth. We can talk to people start an "Information Campaign". Take an active role in any kind of Civic prgram, volunteer to help whatever issue you want to help succeed. When you start talking to people bring out the topic of Cannabis and how it has changed your life. The more you do it the easier it is to broach the subject, sometimes you get a bad reaction, but most of my experiances have been posiitive. I know the people can make a difference but no one cares about the people watching from the sidelines. It is easy to be a Quarterback when you just watch the game. Wink

This is no insult to anyone out there, this is my "Pep talk". Razz

_________________
Peace and Blessings to All,

Sister Jessica

Don Quixote · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:37 am Post subject:

YES.i AGREE. VOTE.BUT VOTE FOR THE POLICIES NOT THE PERSONALITIES.

In England people vote for whoever they think can win.the policies are irrelevant.

Its sort of like betting on a horse race.you try and back the 'winner'.

luckily we have a specialy rigged system which means you have to pay to try and contest each area.this means that if you want to play at being the government you have to pay thousands to contest each constituency or 'seat'.

to contest all the seats costs millions.this ensures that you need corporate 'backing' which will have to be paid back in 'favours'.we call it democracy , and its great.

It keeps all those honest people and environmentalists and humanitarians out of the game.

I leave you with the words of 'uncle joe' Stalin :-

"Those who vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything."

Joseph Stalin.

.

zero · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject:

I got an idea. How about this:

I will agree to vote when I find someone who I agree to vote for. I do not vote simply because I will not choose between the lesser of two evils.

What does it matter to me if canadate A or canadate B gets into power when they will both do the same things? It is a waste of my time to vote for either.

If Roger ran, or Ferre, for something that I could vote for, I would be all over it. It would be worth me getting off my couch and going down to the polls to support a brother.

Frankly, politicians are liars. You may say I'm only bieng part of the problem here, but seriously, what good is my vote going to accomplish if their isn't a decent canadate to vote for?

Show me a politician that isn't a liar and I'll show you a guy who got fooled into thinking that someone isn't a liar.

I am not going to vote for a liar, even if it means not voting at all.
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Rishi · Cannabis Sacrament Minister Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 142

"Show me a politician that isn't a liar and I'll show you a guy who got fooled into thinking that someone isn't a liar.

I am not going to vote for a liar, even if it means not voting at all."

/////

I like that.

In addition I want to say this...Who even knows what really goes on in "government" when even the congressmen themselves admit they, "didn't have time to read the bill before signing it", (PATRIOT Act, for instance). Who here even knows what bills were considered this week in their country, what the vote was, what the issues were? When was the last time you saw a major newspaper, or ANY newspaper for that matter, actually PRINT what went before congress in the last week? Why isn't this sort of thing public knowledge?

Having said that, what is the use in voting for some LIAR with a 2-4 year term at all levels of government, only to have absolutely NO CLEAR IDEA what they are doing during their stay in office?

Nobody has time to watch C-span 12 hours a day to glean all the details. The media obviously doesn't want you to know what's really going on in government. If one were to really establish true democracy, everything would first have to be out in the open instead of behind closed doors and paid for by some corporate lobbyist. Second, you'd have to give the control of government to the people themselves, meaning that the people themselves would have to consider and vote on all the issues DIRECTLY, preferrably through secure internet connections.

But I ask you once again, what's all this for? I don't need government for anything....why do you? Why not just live a completely different life than mainstream society, and get out of this mindset that everything needs to be done FOR YOU by "those in charge", when in fact it's better to just take charge of ones' own affairs?
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**Ferre** · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject:

This seems to be an interesting concept:

http://www.givepeaceavote.org

.
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Don Quixote · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject:

oooooh look a double post.

what is this stuff i am smoking. think its time for a little rest.

Don Quixote · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject:

yeah well said brother Zero.

what you said there was absolutely true.

iIn a way , abstaining , or not voting , is a kind of vote in itself.It is a way of saying "actually i don't trust any of you"

i used to treat voting as a big joke , a bunch of us used to hire costumes and dress up as clowns or mexican bandits or some other such nonsense , just for a big laugh.we would then have a contest to see how many polling stations we could 'visit' and vote in.pretty stupid really.and rather pointless.great fun when you have just had a bowl.

At the last general election we were all 'detained' by the police for dressing up in nazi ss uniforms and announcing loudly (by loud hailer , or bull horn.)that we had come to vote for labour (B.liars party.)charges of disturbing the peace were dropped but again it was pointless and rather foolish.

then , at the yealy local or council elections ,i went through a stage of writing messages on the ballot paper and crossing out all the candidates.again stupid and pointless.they just get thrown out.

Now , at the locals , and the next general election , i will vote for any party that states that they will legalise Cannabis use and possesion , and that is NOT backed by any corporate or big business interest.probably the green party.

If you want to abstain from voting i suggest you go to the polling station and write on the ballot paper that you abstain.this increases the percentage of ballot papers which have to be destroyed.those figures are usualy published.

In the end , big corporations and the 'security service' will always be the ones who decide which government we have.If you don't play along they get rid of you through 'media character assasination' or you have 'an accident'.

the solution - who knows? devolved power , open up politics to every and any party even if they dont have millions of pounds or dollars or just scrap the whole system and build something better and more honest.some kind of people power is desperately needed.

maybe we should look back in time to the days before the present , rigged system came into force.maybe anarchy.maybe a series of small states with no central government.I will leave that to cleverer people than i.

some form of social , humanist system which is about people and not big business and plutocratic oligarchs is our only chance to survive as a species.

meandering waffle , over and out.

SOCIAL JUSTICE FOR ALL.

PEACE.

AND DON'T EVER VOTE FOR ME. :-)

.

jessica · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject:

American's rank 139th in the world for actually voting, so there is no complaint for what has happened to our country. I tell people, if you don't participate you have absolutly no right to complain about the condition of the world today. The state of things did not just appear one day, Americans have forgotten and still refuse to get involved in their Countries affairs. So, what is, is, and we have noone to blame but ourselves. We have lost our rights and still noone votes, they create laws because only a small percentage of people who are involved in local politics, so this country now reflects their concept. I have no time to listen to people just gripping, we have the power to change the subject. If you do not vote, do you get involved in your community? What do you do to improve this world? Such ideas and new teachings are here in these forums, we should be advocating where we can and whenever we can. I would rather die trying to improve my neighbourhood, city, county, state, country, world, however whenever I can. At least then I can say I have done my part in these challanging times. So what if we fail, at least we had the balls to try. I applaud all who try, regardless of seemingly endless failures, at least they can say they tried. Wink

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Peace and Blessings to All,

Sister Jessica