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Rev. Steve
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
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 Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: Evidence of God? |
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DNA: The Tiny Code That's Toppling Evolution
As scientists explore a new universe—the universe inside the cell—they are making startling discoveries of information systems more complex than anything ever devised by humanity's best minds. How did they get there, and what does it mean for the theory of evolution?
by Mario Seiglie
Two great achievements occurred in 1953, more than half a century ago.
The first was the successful ascent of Mt. Everest, the highest mountain in the world. Sir Edmund Hillary and his guide, Tenzing Norgay, reached the summit that year, an accomplishment that's still considered the ultimate feat for mountain climbers. Since then, more than a thousand mountaineers have made it to the top, and each year hundreds more attempt it.
Yet the second great achievement of 1953 has had a greater impact on the world. Each year, many thousands join the ranks of those participating in this accomplishment, hoping to ascend to fame and fortune.
It was in 1953 that James Watson and Francis Crick achieved what appeared impossible—discovering the genetic structure deep inside the nucleus of our cells. We call this genetic material DNA, an abbreviation for deoxyribonucleic acid.
The discovery of the double-helix structure of the DNA molecule opened the floodgates for scientists to examine the code embedded within it. Now, more than half a century after the initial discovery, the DNA code has been deciphered—although many of its elements are still not well understood.
What has been found has profound implications regarding Darwinian evolution, the theory taught in schools all over the world that all living beings have evolved by natural processes through mutation and natural selection.
Amazing revelations about DNA
As scientists began to decode the human DNA molecule, they found something quite unexpected—an exquisite 'language' composed of some 3 billion genetic letters. "One of the most extraordinary discoveries of the twentieth century," says Dr. Stephen Meyer, director of the Center for Science and Culture at the Discovery Institute in Seattle, Wash., "was that DNA actually stores information—the detailed instructions for assembling proteins—in the form of a four-character digital code" (quoted by Lee Strobel, The Case for a Creator, 2004, p. 224).
It is hard to fathom, but the amount of information in human DNA is roughly equivalent to 12 sets of The Encyclopaedia Britannica—an incredible 384 volumes" worth of detailed information that would fill 48 feet of library shelves!
Yet in their actual size—which is only two millionths of a millimeter thick—a teaspoon of DNA, according to molecular biologist Michael Denton, could contain all the information needed to build the proteins for all the species of organisms that have ever lived on the earth, and "there would still be enough room left for all the information in every book ever written" (Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, 1996, p. 334).
Who or what could miniaturize such information and place this enormous number of 'letters' in their proper sequence as a genetic instruction manual? Could evolution have gradually come up with a system like this?
DNA contains a genetic language
Let's first consider some of the characteristics of this genetic 'language.' For it to be rightly called a language, it must contain the following elements: an alphabet or coding system, correct spelling, grammar (a proper arrangement of the words), meaning (semantics) and an intended purpose.
Scientists have found the genetic code has all of these key elements. "The coding regions of DNA," explains Dr. Stephen Meyer, "have exactly the same relevant properties as a computer code or language" (quoted by Strobel, p. 237, emphasis in original).
The only other codes found to be true languages are all of human origin. Although we do find that dogs bark when they perceive danger, bees dance to point other bees to a source and whales emit sounds, to name a few examples of other species" communication, none of these have the composition of a language. They are only considered low-level communication signals.
The only types of communication considered high-level are human languages, artificial languages such as computer and Morse codes and the genetic code. No other communication system has been found to contain the basic characteristics of a language.
Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, commented that "DNA is like a software program, only much more complex than anything we've ever devised."
Can you imagine something more intricate than the most complex program running on a supercomputer being devised by accident through evolution—no matter how much time, how many mutations and how much natural selection are taken into account?
DNA language not the same as DNA molecule
Recent studies in information theory have come up with some astounding conclusions—namely, that information cannot be considered in the same category as matter and energy. It's true that matter or energy can carry information, but they are not the same as information itself.
For instance, a book such as Homer's Iliad contains information, but is the physical book itself information? No, the materials of the book—the paper, ink and glue contain the contents, but they are only a means of transporting it.
If the information in the book was spoken aloud, written in chalk or electronically reproduced in a computer, the information does not suffer qualitatively from the means of transporting it. "In fact the content of the message," says professor Phillip Johnson, "is independent of the physical makeup of the medium" (Defeating Darwinism by Opening Minds, 1997, p. 71).
The same principle is found in the genetic code. The DNA molecule carries the genetic language, but the language itself is independent of its carrier. The same genetic information can be written in a book, stored in a compact disk or sent over the Internet, and yet the quality or content of the message has not changed by changing the means of conveying it.
As George Williams puts it: "The gene is a package of information, not an object. The pattern of base pairs in a DNA molecule specifies the gene. But the DNA molecule is the medium, it's not the message" (quoted by Johnson, p. 70).
Information from an intelligent source
In addition, this type of high-level information has been found to originate only from an intelligent source.
As Lee Strobel explains: "The data at the core of life is not disorganized, it's not simply orderly like salt crystals, but it's complex and specific information that can accomplish a bewildering task—the building of biological machines that far outstrip human technological capabilities" (p. 244).
For instance, the precision of this genetic language is such that the average mistake that is not caught turns out to be one error per 10 billion letters. If a mistake occurs in one of the most significant parts of the code, which is in the genes, it can cause a disease such as sickle-cell anemia. Yet even the best and most intelligent typist in the world couldn't come close to making only one mistake per 10 billion letters—far from it.
So to believe that the genetic code gradually evolved in Darwinian style would break all the known rules of how matter, energy and the laws of nature work. In fact, there has not been found in nature any example of one information system inside the cell gradually evolving into another functional information program.
Michael Behe, a biochemist and professor at Pennsylvania's Lehigh University, explains that genetic information is primarily an instruction manual and gives some examples.
He writes: "Consider a step-by-step list of [genetic] instructions. A mutation is a change in one of the lines of instructions. So instead of saying, "Take a 1/4-inch nut," a mutation might say, "Take a 3/8-inch nut." Or instead of "Place the round peg in the round hole," we might get "Place the round peg in the square hole" . . . What a mutation cannot do is change all the instructions in one step—say, [providing instructions] to build a fax machine instead of a radio" (Darwin's Black Box, 1996, p. 41).
We therefore have in the genetic code an immensely complex instruction manual that has been majestically designed by a more intelligent source than human beings.
Even one of the discoverers of the genetic code, the agnostic and recently deceased Francis Crick, after decades of work on deciphering it, admitted that "an honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going" (Life Itself, 1981, p. 88, emphasis added).
Evolution fails to provide answers
It is good to remember that, in spite of all the efforts of all the scientific laboratories around the world working over many decades, they have not been able to produce so much as a single human hair. How much more difficult is it to produce an entire body consisting of some 100 trillion cells!
Up to now, Darwinian evolutionists could try to counter their detractors with some possible explanations for the complexity of life. But now they have to face the information dilemma: How can meaningful, precise information be created by accident—by mutation and natural selection? None of these contain the mechanism of intelligence, a requirement for creating complex information such as that found in the genetic code.
Darwinian evolution is still taught in most schools as though it were fact. But it is increasingly being found wanting by a growing number of scientists. "As recently as twenty-five years ago," says former atheist Patrick Glynn, "a reasonable person weighing the purely scientific evidence on the issue would likely have come down on the side of skepticism [regarding a Creator]. That is no longer the case." He adds: "Today the concrete data point strongly in the direction of the God hypothesis. It is the simplest and most obvious solution . . ." (God: The Evidence, 1997, pp. 54-55, 53).
Quality of genetic information the same
Evolution tells us that through chance mutations and natural selection, living things evolve. Yet to evolve means to gradually change certain aspects of some living thing until it becomes another type of creature, and this can only be done by changing the genetic information.
So what do we find about the genetic code? The same basic quality of information exists in a humble bacteria or a plant as in a person. A bacterium has a shorter genetic code, but qualitatively it gives instructions as precisely and exquisitely as that of a human being. We find the same prerequisites of a language—alphabet, grammar and semantics—in simple bacteria and algae as in man.
Each cell with genetic information, from bacteria to man, according to molecular biologist Michael Denton, consists of "artificial languages and their decoding systems, memory banks for information storage and retrieval, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of parts and components, error fail-safe and proof-reading devices utilized for quality control, assembly processes involving the principle of prefabrication and modular construction . . . [and a] capacity not equalled in any of our most advanced machines, for it would be capable of replicating its entire structure within a matter of a few hours" (Denton, p. 329).
So how could the genetic information of bacteria gradually evolve into information for another type of being, when only one or a few minor mistakes in the millions of letters in that bacterium's DNA can kill it?
Again, evolutionists are uncharacteristically silent on the subject. They don't even have a working hypothesis about it. Lee Strobel writes: "The six feet of DNA coiled inside every one of our body's one hundred trillion cells contains a four-letter chemical alphabet that spells out precise assembly instructions for all the proteins from which our bodies are made . . . No hypothesis has come close to explaining how information got into biological matter by naturalistic means" (Strobel, p. 282).
Werner Gitt, professor of information systems, puts it succinctly: "The basic flaw of all evolutionary views is the origin of the information in living beings. It has never been shown that a coding system and semantic information could originate by itself [through matter] . . . The information theorems predict that this will never be possible. A purely material origin of life is thus [ruled out]" (Gitt, p. 124).
The clincher
Besides all the evidence we have covered for the intelligent design of DNA information, there is still one amazing fact remaining—the ideal number of genetic letters in the DNA code for storage and translation.
Moreover, the copying mechanism of DNA, to meet maximum effectiveness, requires the number of letters in each word to be an even number. Of all possible mathematical combinations, the ideal number for storage and transcription has been calculated to be four letters.
This is exactly what has been found in the genes of every living thing on earth—a four-letter digital code. As Werner Gitt states: "The coding system used for living beings is optimal from an engineering standpoint. This fact strengthens the argument that it was a case of purposeful design rather that a [lucky] chance" (Gitt, p. 95).
More witnesses
Back in Darwin's day, when his book On the Origin of Species was published in 1859, life appeared much simpler. Viewed through the primitive microscopes of the day, the cell appeared to be but a simple blob of jelly or uncomplicated protoplasm. Now, almost 150 years later, that view has changed dramatically as science has discovered a virtual universe inside the cell.
"It was once expected," writes Professor Behe, "that the basis of life would be exceedingly simple. That expectation has been smashed. Vision, motion, and other biological functions have proven to be no less sophisticated than television cameras and automobiles. Science has made enormous progress in understanding how the chemistry of life works, but the elegance and complexity of biological systems at the molecular level have paralyzed science's attempt to explain their origins" (Behe, p. x).
Dr. Meyer considers the recent discoveries about DNA as the Achilles" heel of evolutionary theory. He observes: "Evolutionists are still trying to apply Darwin's nineteenth-century thinking to a twenty-first century reality, and it's not working ... I think the information revolution taking place in biology is sounding the death knell for Darwinism and chemical evolutionary theories" (quoted by Strobel, p. 243).
Dr. Meyer's conclusion? "I believe that the testimony of science supports theism. While there will always be points of tension or unresolved conflict, the major developments in science in the past five decades have been running in a strongly theistic direction" (ibid., p. 77).
Dean Kenyon, a biology professor who repudiated his earlier book on Darwinian evolution—mostly due to the discoveries of the information found in DNA—states: "This new realm of molecular genetics (is) where we see the most compelling evidence of design on the Earth" (ibid., p. 221).
Just recently, one of the world's most famous atheists, Professor Antony Flew, admitted he couldn't explain how DNA was created and developed through evolution. He now accepts the need for an intelligent source to have been involved in the making of the DNA code.
"What I think the DNA material has done is show that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinary diverse elements together," he said (quoted by Richard Ostling, "Leading Atheist Now Believes in God," Associated Press report, Dec. 9, 2004).
"Fearfully and wonderfully made"
Although written thousands of years ago, King David's words about our marvelous human bodies still ring true. He wrote: "For You formed my inward parts, You covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made . . . My frame was not hidden from You, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought. . ." (Psalm 139:13-15, emphasis added).
Where does all this leave evolution? Michael Denton, an agnostic scientist, concludes: "Ultimately the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century" (Denton, p. 358).
All of this has enormous implications for our society and culture. Professor Johnson makes this clear when he states: "Every history of the twentieth century lists three thinkers as preeminent in influence: Darwin, Marx and Freud. All three were regarded as 'scientific' (and hence far more reliable than anything 'religious') in their heyday.
"Yet Marx and Freud have fallen, and even their dwindling bands of followers no longer claim that their insights were based on any methodology remotely comparable to that of experimental science. I am convinced that Darwin is next on the block. His fall will be by far the mightiest of the three" (Johnson, p. 113).
Evolution has had its run for almost 150 years in the schools and universities and in the press. But now, with the discovery of what the DNA code is all about, the complexity of the cell, and the fact that information is something vastly different from matter and energy, evolution can no longer dodge the ultimate outcome. The evidence certainly points to a resounding checkmate for evolution! GN |
Last edited by Rev. Steve on Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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msactech1
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Every fact that has ever been proven by an evolutionist to support evolution has been disproven by another evolutionist. |
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IntrepidEZJ
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Could evolution have gradually come up with a system like this?
Yes.
In addition, this type of high-level information has been found to originate only from an intelligent source.
No it doesn't.
As Lee Strobel explains: "The data at the core of life is not disorganized, it's not simply orderly like salt crystals, but it's complex and specific information that can accomplish a bewildering task—the building of biological machines that far outstrip human technological capabilities" (p. 244).
Ah. Mr. "Faith under Fire". How about a real debate Lee? I know that is over your head. I trust nothing this con says.
So to believe that the genetic code gradually evolved in Darwinian style would break all the known rules of how matter, energy and the laws of nature work. In fact, there has not been found in nature any example of one information system inside the cell gradually evolving into another functional information program
I believe this is the old, "order cannot stem from disorder" argument.
Explain to me a snowflake?
Darwinian evolution is still taught in most schools as though it were fact. But it is increasingly being found wanting by a growing number of scientists. "As recently as twenty-five years ago," says former atheist Patrick Glynn, "a reasonable person weighing the purely scientific evidence on the issue would likely have come down on the side of skepticism [regarding a Creator]. That is no longer the case." He adds: "Today the concrete data point strongly in the direction of the God hypothesis. It is the simplest and most obvious solution . . ." (God: The Evidence, 1997, pp. 54-55, 53).
Bullshit. What is the definition of "God"? A "supreme" being? Aliens?
DNA? Mother Earth? Mother Galaxy? So on. So forth.
When a snowflake forms, can you PROVE that it is the work of a more intelligent "being", a "supreme" being if you will?
I have not seen it. Order can stem from disorder.
Again, evolutionists are uncharacteristically silent on the subject. They don't even have a working hypothesis about it. Lee Strobel writes: "The six feet of DNA coiled inside every one of our body's one hundred trillion cells contains a four-letter chemical alphabet that spells out precise assembly instructions for all the proteins from which our bodies are made . . . No hypothesis has come close to explaining how information got into biological matter by naturalistic means" (Strobel, p. 282).
Evolutionists are not silent on the subject. You are simply not engaging them. Nor do I see their rebuttals, which would be numerous, in this essay.
Dr. Meyer considers the recent discoveries about DNA as the Achilles" heel of evolutionary theory. He observes: "Evolutionists are still trying to apply Darwin's nineteenth-century thinking to a twenty-first century reality, and it's not working ... I think the information revolution taking place in biology is sounding the death knell for Darwinism and chemical evolutionary theories" (quoted by Strobel, p. 243).
This entire piece is a work of crappy, but probably effective, propaganda.
Evolution IS A FACT.
Whether or not we evolved FROM NOTHING is unknown. They are skewing the debate here. Most evolutionists do not try to argue that we "came from nothing". They simply form theories on the best information, that is available at the current time.
That is the best humans can do. We are not all knowing.
To pre-suppicate God causes innumerable problems. Wars, Division, Forced Belief, and so on.
There is no shame in saying......................."I don't know".
Read through the article carefully. This was carefully crafted to DISCREDIT Evolution, and to PROP UP God Creation Theory.
But, like all of these pieces that I have seen, they bring no evidence whatsoever that we were created by "God".
So they stand on equal footing with those who DO ARGUE that we came from "nothing".
To say we were intelligently designed is one thing, to say we were created by "God", especially the God of your choice, is quite the other. |
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IntrepidEZJ
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ask Lee Strobel why 97 percent of our genetic makeup, which they tout highly here, is the same as a mice and a monkey.
Also explain why if humans don't shave, they heavily resemble an ape? |
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msactech1
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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The earth was perfect untill man screwed it up. People are the ones who brought death and destruction on and to the earth.
I blame my problems on God, too. It's my nature, but we are the one's who made it like this.
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7295
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I want to add that me thinks those creationists are making an ass of themselves with this kind of crappy argumentation.
The only thing we know for sure about 'god' is that it's a human invention somewhere in our past history but when that happened, this universe existed already a few trillion years.
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msactech1
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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I completely respect his opinion and try to disagree with much respect. Maybe I should not comment if it is not something I am willing to debate, but for me it's not about prooving anything.
Maybe a place where people are trying to express thier religious difference is not a place for me to express my faith, but my faith is my opinion.
I do not have a church to attend because I do not follow popular religion. I have not created a new religion, but follow a faith that has been covered-up, and almost forgotten. That is why I feel that I do belong here.
The name of Christ has been stolen by a new religion, so I have nothing else to call myself. Please excuse the title of Christian, and except me as someone fighting for religious freedom, and the freedom to used the sacred herbs.
As the saying goes...
"Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one."
Please accept me when my ass is showing. |
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IntrepidEZJ
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
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Posts: 381
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. Yet, I think it is important to point out the fallacy of the article.
If someone is willing to bring better facts and evidence, I'm willing to change my opinion.
I will not have faith though. Faith is the enemy of reason.
I could have faith in the Easter Bunny, or even in George Bush, but it does not change reality. |
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msactech1
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe if we'd smoke a fatty we'd agree on something. That's what everybody needs to do, all over the world. Just stop and smoke a fatty.
I'm game!
I'll see yall in the other threads. |
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Rev. Steve
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Your hate for G-d, is truly distressing. Let us hope he does not feel the same way about you.
| Quote: |
Could evolution have gradually come up with a system like this?
Yes. |
Show me one example of a high level language creating itself. And please spare me the sarcasm. Give real examples not clever jokes that athiests like to tell each other. |
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msactech1
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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I have just about learned to stay away from the religious topics at these marijuana websites. I feel that people feel they have a right to bash (I am not talking about this one) Christians freely, but want to be respected for thier opinions. Not all people who claim to be Christians really are. Hitler claimed it and killed a lot of people. Bush claims it. They worship something, but it's not my God that they can worship and justify murder without repentance.
I do not want to step on your toes and get booted for expressing my belief. I am a Christian Cannabis Sacrament Minister, if I may. I do believe in creation, but I still want to be friends. Rev. Steve, I'm rooting for you, but I don't want to get kicked out of here, or bashed for my faith. I may post later on when I feel the topic is more open, but I'm going to avoid walking on the ice until I see it'll hold me up. |
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Rev. Steve
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Thats cool msactech1, I appreciate the vote of confidence. But to all the athiests here, understand that old Rev. Steve is in fact spoiling for a fight so y'all might want to stay away from this one. If I get booted for being a Christian then fuck this Amsterdam place straight to fucking hell anyway. Anybody here who knows me, knows that I will in fact speak what comes to my Christian mind. If they can't handle it they can take the gas fucking pipe!
Peace be upon you all. |
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7295
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Rev. Steve dude, you won't get booted around here for being a Christian but don't expect us to start believing in your god or creation theories either. You posted an article that is concidered to be a joke for anyone with a brain, most of the people around here are very open minded and will discuss things when they are brought on the table, however do not expect the blind devotion that this subject triggers on christian forums, because this isn't a christian forum. These boards are THC Ministry boards and we are not at all based in the christian tradition, in fact we have ancient shamanic roots and as we all know from history, the christian tradition, untill this very day, has been leading the oppression of our beliefs, the war on drugs is the best example, it's not a coinsidence that entheogens are declared war on by men in costumes living in the western world which is dominated by people with a bible in their homes who know-what's-best-for-everyone-else and who consider people who think differently as poor people who need to be saved.
Please understand that you have the right to say whatever you like, but others have their right to respond as well.
..and please keep this conversation on a communicative level, becoming insultive towards our ministry and members based on assumptions isn't very productive.
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People who know truth, speak truth.
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IntrepidEZJ
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm always game brother Steve. (Where is Bamaman?)
But, I'm afraid, you changed the context.
Proving the origin of language, does not prove God.
It might, but at this time, it doesn't.
So, with that said.........
Can you prove to us, that language was created by God?
I have no hate of God, it is just that he is a non-sequiter.
And, the title is Agnostic, not Atheist.
And no, they are not the same thing.
I think that if there is a God, God simply represents Truth.
Are you willing to go there Steve? Or will the fervent power of belief sway you? |
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Rev. Steve
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Bro Ferre for answering my rant with logic and reason. Unfortunatly that is not what I usually see when Christ is mentioned. Quite the opposite. Now If I remember correctly, the Rev. Roger Christie founded THC Ministry based on Judeo/Christian wisdom taken from the Bible.
No high level language creates itself, it is an abstraction and exists as a tool for a larger mind. Please don't site bees or any other animal as they were born with there language skills intact and are purely instinctual. Parrots and certain other birds are exceptional in that they can actually learn and understand a spoken language.
The truth is also my goal. To find out what Christ said and did without any human filtration. My point is that as Christian, I felt welcome here. Now I see my beliefs made the butt of some atheistic joke. Personally, as a student of physics, I cannot reconcile a universe that happened without a cause. No mathematical model we can ever concieve will be correct thanks to that pesky Mayan invention, zero.
What I see here is the same thing that happened to the early Christian church. All people were welcomed, including pagans and gnostics. The problem is that those people were not interested in the Gospel or Christ or anything the church offered. Thay just wanted to infiltrate and displace Christ. And that is what has happened to THC Ministry. I don't recall making jokes about anybodies religion. But Christ is attacked as a matter of course here and I won't keep silent about it.
I admire Bro Ferre's restraint here. My rants are usually quite vitriolic and I am pleased that this one is no exception. |
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