Does pot really need to be legal?

[Pateticus]

I'm starting to wonder whether or not having a political agenda is suitable for a Ministry (not just the THC-Ministry, either, but I speak of all the political agendas that all religions have).

Here's what I'm thinking...and see if you can follow...

Ministers give out their sacrament at organized gatherings (whether it be bread, wine, beer or cannibis)--they don't sell it. They do, however, continue collecting donations so they can continue making sacrament and giving it to their people.

Legalization would make it part of the economy, and therefore, a commodity. Which, as we've seen with beer, wine and cigarettes, only leads to apathetic use of it, which leads to addiction.

Do we really want to see packs of cannibis cigarettes marketed next to the Marlboros and the Camels? Do we want to see big market tobacco companies putting a price tag on our sacrament? Especially knowing how they operate? Concealing their ingredients and addicting kids?

How long after legalization do you think it's going to take the Marlboro people to start slating off parts of their land for production of cannibis...and make the THC-Ministry a thing of the past?

By keeping it criminalized--or, in this case, criminalized for those who aren't ministers...that puts us--the Ministers--at a distinct advantage as being the only people that can freely distribute it.

In it's own way, criminalization puts us at an advantage.

If we really are to make this about ministry--the provision of the sacrament for the sake of benefitting the life of the people around us--would we not be better off to focus on how cannibis can help us help others?

Pot smokers have one of the best grass-rooots, underground networks known to man. You know that you don't need to have money to have pot--because, usually, the people that smoke pot don't mind sharing what they have.

All you have to do is gather and share. Pot smokers do that naturally, and that has always been our strength--our committment to the joy of eachother's friendship.

This is another thing that puts us at an advantage--we can give authority to others to freely distribute pot at our gatherings. And that's the kicker--it has to stay free in order for it to remain sacrament. That is it's own legitimacy.

Might I suggest a divergence from all the political action and, instead, focus on just having a good time and inspiring positive vibes in those around us by being Cannibis Ministers? By taking donations and giving out pot freely at our own gatherings?

Would this not, eventually, lead to a state of popular demand and/or commonality to the point of acceptance?

Isn't that what Ministry is?

Pateticus
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Here's to burning one down with god.
Don't forget to look behind you every once in awhile
and always exhale with a grin.


http://members.cox.net/pateticus/

[HvyFuel]

[Pateticus]

Cannibis is our sacrament. As ministers, it is our sworn duty to issue it, unconditionally, to anyone who asks for it--that's what sacrament is. Every minister of every religion that has ever existed has issued sacrament to their community.

If we don't take that kind of a risk to distribute to our people, aren't we just creating the religion so we can smoke it ourselves? And isn't that exactly what the supreme court is accusing us of?

You are a minister...your word is the word of god to your people.

Just who's authority do you think you answer to?


Pateticus
_________________
Here's to burning one down with god.
Don't forget to look behind you every once in awhile
and always exhale with a grin.


http://members.cox.net/pateticus/

[Slide]

Personally,

As a minister I do not feel my word is the word of god. I feel my word is just that, my word.

I may repeat God's word but doing that does not make it mine. It is my belief in that word makes it real to me.

But we have all seen to many ministers that thought they spoke for God when in fact they were far removed from the spiritual connection needed to know a presence greater than man.

[Ferre]

You are right brother, as a minister.

As a religious organisation we do have the responcability towards our members to protect them from having their global human rights violated by local governments. THC Ministry is not an activist organisation, not at all, but our members are facing discrimination on religious and several other grounds in many places on this beautiful planet and sadly enough this forces us to file complaints at courts sometimes.

I wish this was not needed and hope to see it end as well. In the maintime, we wish our members to enjoy their lives to the max and don't forget, a spiritual awareness is what we are enjoying.



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[Ferre]

You are right brother, as a minister.

As a religious organisation we do have the responcability towards our members to protect them from having their global human rights violated by local governments. THC Ministry is not an activist organisation, not at all, but our members are facing discrimination on religious and several other grounds in many places on this beautiful planet and sadly enough this forces us to file complaints at courts sometimes.

I wish this was not needed and hope to see it end as well. In the maintime, we wish our members to enjoy their lives to the max and don't forget, a spiritual awareness is what we are enjoying.



_________________
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█ Radio Free Amsterdam
People who know truth, speak truth.
Those who don't, quote scriptures.

[Pateticus]

The ordination with the THC Ministry came through the ordination with the Universal Life Church, which states, to do that which is right.

'right' doesn't always mean 'legal' nor does it always mean 'political'.

Sometimes, excellence, is in the ease at which something can be done.

I feel that getting involved in global/national politics keeps a minister distracted from his people--who I feel should be his prime concern.

The pot-smoking community has strength already by sheer number and conviction--it's why every attempt to criminalize it has failed and why we even got this far.

We empower others allowing everyone around us to share our sacrament. We also strengthen our congregation by always being able to provide our sacrament.

When a congregation is in need of faith, guidence, resolution...it turns to its minister.

We can take pot use out of the basements and into the public places through holding public and open services--hiding nothing and showing people that it's not the problem they think it is.

We can prove that it promotes unity, community, creativity and spirit and all we have to do is team up and throw a party. Do you really expect them to arrest every man, woman and child?

We do more by displaying, proudly, the spiritual awareness that we claim to have, allowing it to be shared and embraced by others who thought it beyond their reach.

Is that not ministry?

Pateticus
_________________
Here's to burning one down with god.
Don't forget to look behind you every once in awhile
and always exhale with a grin.


http://members.cox.net/pateticus/

[Rev. Chazman]

In the mean time hundreds of thousands of Cannabis users are put into prison every year. Most dont know about us, and some maybe wouldnt want to join us if they did. Your question was "does Cannabis really need to be legal".. In response I say YES!

You go on to question whether it is better for us and the THC-Ministry if were to stay illegal.. I say this is in fact a separate issue entirely from your original question.

Yes it should be legal (although regulated as to age like alcohol and tobacco are) so that all those 1000's of individuals imprisoned each year becomes a thing of the past. People who's lives are drasticaly changed by the experience of being thrown into a prison with rapists, murderers etc..

As far as its effects on the THC-Ministry.. I dont see a problem here. Cannabis use has a long and historic record of being associated with religious and spiritual communitys. I do in fact see the legalization of Cannabis to be a boon to membership in our(and others like) organization because of the stigma and fear that Cannabis use currently has would be removed. Those who secretly would like to be a part of our Ministry and believe as we do that are afraid to take that step now... would be free to pursue a life of Religious Cannabis use without fear of ridicule or imprisonment.

I see what you are getting at I supose... But no, I think legalization is best for all concerned. Will there be abusers of Cannabis like there are now with legal tobacco and legal alcohol? Of course.. There already are now, so legalization wont change that. Thats where education and social support programs come in. But we would end the unreasonable and inhumane punishments that are in place now.

Peace
_________________
I praise good thoughts, good words, and good deeds and those that are to be thought, spoken, and done. I do accept all good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. I do renounce all evil thoughts, evil words, and evil deeds. ---Avesta: Yasna
---------------------------------------------------
Future Servant of Cannatopia ©2004 - ∞ Rev. Chazman all rights reserved

[Lilli]

Exactly Chaz. Well spoken.
_________________

I pass to you the torch that Christ once passed to me.
Others are still in the dark and need
the light to see.
"I AM"
"Gathering the fragments so that
none are lost"
His Shepherdess
http://missouri.thcministry.org/

[sibannac]

Yes Yes Yes legalise it as soon as possible. As for people becoming addicts of cannabis I personally dont think you can, you may become addicted to the tobacco or the life style but not the plant??
As for giving out sacrament myself and others have been doing excactly that i have distributed whole plants to people who need them to treat maladies, IF they request it first.



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http://www.cannabis-assembly.co.uk

[HvyFuel]

Distribution on request to medical users is what many of us have been doing for quite some time. Sharing the Sacrament privately, and in person, between members would happen almost every time members met, IMHO only of course.

[sara]

existance should be legal. life should be respected.
_________________
“When one is connected above,’’ he said
quietly, “he does not fall below.”
OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK...

[Pateticus]

[RogerChristie]

Aloha from here to there,

Is the opposite of illegal - legal? And is that good or bad?

Recently I heard a sex worker, hooker, talk about her profession at the Libertarian Party Convention. She made a fine point of mentioning that she and her co-workers wanted freedom to work, but did NOT want prostitution 'legalized' like it is near Las Vegas. She wanted much more than that for herself and her friends in the sex business. We can learn something from her knowledge.

Freedom, or decriminalization, for prostitution means that sex workers can be self-employed and run their own show. They make their own appointments and work as long as they want to, etc., etc. She said it's THE way to go for her and her friends. She said, 'it sucks' in a good way. :-}

'Legalized' prostitution, on the other hand, means that there will be an owner of the business who hires workers with lots of government forced rules and regulations. Women are required to start and stop at certain hours and to have a quota of sex per shift, to submit to the boss, etc. She said, 'it sucks' in a bad way. :-{

'Be careful what you ask for' is still a fine, smart saying. 'Illegal' cannabis makes most of us think that we want it 'legal'. Right? I say, 'no thank you'. This discussion makes us think about it more thoroughly. Thanks to Pateticus for starting it and to all who comment on it.

I no longer work for 'legalizing' herb. It's a losing game, in my opinion. All that work and all that money spent for all that time and it's still not 'legal' in the USA. Tens of millions of dollars spent and tens of thousands of people who have tried to do it with almost zero success, except for some 'medical marijuana' laws which have passed.

Instead, we promote the religious 'defense to prosecution' that works very well every single day and night for almost four years now for thousands of our members and others, too. And we want more progress so we are suing for a permanent injunction to get it the way we want it to be.

One major characteristic of our ministry is that there is zero 'sales' of herb, as far as I know of. That is a key difference between us and a 'dealer' of herb who is 'in commerce' and doing something 'illegal' according to the laws in the USA, anyway.

Netherlands is another story.

All for now.

[Fearless1]

I'm tired of hiding and looking over my shoulder, I want to be able to use my Sacrament in my own home as I see fit. I want to be able to set down in my chair and burn 1 and not worry about some Rambo kicking in my door and hauling me off to jail away from my family and friends. I want to be there to see my family grow and learn and I want to help teach my son how to fish, hunt, and grow and not be in fear of that being taken away by "the man". There is no way on Earth or in Heaven that pot should not be legal as a matter of fact if it were legal it would be easier to control who uses Sacrament and to keep it out of the kids hands tell they see fit to use it for prayer. Other than Iraq it is one of the costliest wars going on with no sign of it ever ending, my hope is as I get older and our generation gets older and more people my age that grew up in the sixties and seventies using cannabus we bond together and fight this unjust law and make it legal to partake in your home and place of worship. If we had a easy to find list of all politicians and how they vote we could work on getting the nay voters out and the yay voters in. Well thank you all for listening to my morning rant and I will be looking for a list like this in my own state, we need a way of knowing who these people we vote in to office are and how they stand on the subject at hand. Please everyone look at your states elected persons and compile a list of there yay and nay votes and how it effects the subject at hand. Alaska has the right idea and all states should follow suit, make it legal to smoke and grow in the privacey of your own home and of course no selling or buying just grow enough for your and your familys own needs. This is the way God intended it so lets make it so, as much as I hate politics I hate my pot smoking being illegal more so, I can't remember a time when I was not looking over my shoulder and that is just not right in a free country like ours. I'm going to research the goverment offices I can run for in my area and which ever I see can do the most good for our cause I'm going to run for it and see what I can do to make this dream come true. I hope you will do the same. As I see it the only way to win this war is from inside so be it! God Bless you all ! I pass the your way.
_________________
"I didn't inhale" or "oral sex is not adultry"
Gotta love that guy!!
Former President William Jefferson Clinton

[Echo]

DEA is not legitimate and their actions controversial. And yes, cannabis should stay legal as it has been for thousand of years.
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