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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7295
Location: Amsterdam
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 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: Churches chip in on dagga |
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RASTAFARIANS lobbying for the legalisation of dagga - 'holy smoke' to them - received a fair bit of opposition yesterday from church groups - an 'unholy practice' to them - on the second day of a public hearing on the Combating of the Abuse of Drugs Bill in Windhoek.
The hearing also heard a new argument - that the popular image of dagga as a dangerous substance was nothing more than western propaganda 'because it was an enemy of capitalism'.
Overall, day two of the proceedings, which coincidentally took place on the birthday of late Rasta legend Bob Marley, attracted a lot more attention from members of the public than the opening session.
The Ombudsman, Nascam, the Council of Churches in Namibia (CCN), the Universal Church and the Seventh Day Adventist Church all contributed to discussions around the bill yesterday, while civilians once again came out in full support of cannabis - urging lawmakers to drop the plant from the list of banned substances in Namibian society.
The CCN generally agreed with the proposed law, but said Government needed to include "stiff punishment" for minors who make themselves guilty of drug and alcohol abuse.
"The position of the Church in Namibia concerning alcohol and drug use and abuse is quite well known," CCN General Secretary Reverend Phillip Strydom said.
"Our nation today shows clear symptoms of alcohol and drug abuse, and the nation is at the point of being destroyed by alcohol and drug abuse," he said.
The Universal Church, on the other hand, while supporting the aims of the bill, urged Government to make sure whether the suggested minimum sentences of 20 years' imprisonment for first-time offenders, and 30 years' imprisonment for subsequent arrests (regardless of quantity and type of drug involved) were the correct way to go.
"We understand that it is not in the interest of any person to send a human being to jail for 20 to 30 or even more years.
It is expensive for Government.
It deprives the inmates of their liberty, families, friends, jobs and communities.
It reduces their subsequent income and employability and can destroy their families' financial and social stability."
Still, if this was considered the way to go, the church said Government should accompany this with an awareness campaign to keep citizens out of prison.
"If a person who uses drugs only a few times because of his curiosity only finds out in court that he will stay in jail for 20 years, this severe punishment will not bring about the desired effect," the church stated.
The Universal Church further proposed that sentences should vary depending on the type of drug a suspect is caught with, making a distinction between drugs such as cocaine, amphetamines (speed), and dagga.
Ombudsman John Walters criticised a number of things either proposed or absent from the bill.
The lack of any provision for treating drug addicts was a loophole that could be exploited by suspects, Walters suggested.
"The courts will face these problems.
Someone will say, 'yes, I'm guilty, but I did it because I'm addicted to cocaine'.
Will that be considered compelling evidence to let the suspect go free? That won't serve the interest of the public.
The court, under this proposed legislation, has no power to send someone for treatment while being held," Walters said.
He further agreed with others who felt that a sentence of 20 years' imprisonment for a first-time offender was unrealistic.
"I believe children experiment, whether with sex, cigarettes or liquor.
We all at times experiment with immoral things.
The main thing should be to rehabilitate those abusing it," he said.
Walters further criticised a clause in the bill (Section 24, subsection 6) which will allow Police to install monitoring devices, equipment or software on premises, telephones, or computer systems of suspicious people without the permission of a judge.
"I cannot agree with this.
What circumstances will prevent an officer from approaching a judge to say they need permission to monitor a suspect? Police should under all circumstances get permission from a judge.
If necessary a Police officer can approach a judge at 12 o'clock at night.
This section should not be enacted into law," the Ombudsman cautioned.
DAGGA - ENEMY OF CAPITALISM? In a presentation that drew applause from the public, Norelle Louw argued that the popular image of dagga as a dangerous substance was nothing more than western propaganda.
"Before 1910 cannabis were not illegal anywhere in the world.
It was only when America started getting this whole capitalism thing going," she argued.
She said that hemp (fibre of the cannabis plant) was originally used to make rope and strong fabrics.
"Hemp practically carried the (American) civil war as farmers were pushed to produce it so soldiers would have enough clothing.
"But cannabis was no good for a capitalist society," she said to applause from public benches.
"While hemp gets stronger with age, capitalism needs people to buy continually.
So therefore they introduced cotton, which wears out quickly, and to stop people from using cannabis they had to get something on it.
That's when all the propaganda started and it had to be removed from society," she said.
Louw, like a multitude of others before and after her, urged Government to decriminalise dagga.
"Forbidden fruit is always the sweetest to the youth," she said in conclusion, arguing that in Holland where dagga is tolerated, fewer young people are believed to smoke it than in America where it is illegal.
http://www.namibian.com.na/2007/February/national/077566FCF0.html
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Brother Adam
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 1915
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:40 am Post subject: |
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At this time in my life I seek only one answer.
How can we rid ourselves of this ignorance without violence?
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-Brother Adam (we are all one family)
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”
-James Madison
Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face. |
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IntrepidEZJ
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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I don't think it is possible.
States live by repression. All states. I have no need to speak to you of centralized power and why checks and balances are crucial.
I think of another question on this line of though:
How do you regulate the people who make the laws?
Or, how do the people, a big swarming mass of people, with completely different needs and wants, regulate government officials and the decisions they make?
??????????
Pulling up blanks? Me too. I'm in no way, shape, or form ready to tackle that beast.
And last thing, that article made me think of George Carlin.
He mentioned one time, that everytime the government gets ready to SHOVE something down your throat, guess who it is in the name of?
THE CHILDREN!
It's always the fucking children!
Regulating the Internet - The Children
Better Education - The Children
The War on Drugs - The Children!
Ok maybe that is it, but I doubt it.  |
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PopeBobtheFirst
High and aware
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:08 am Post subject: |
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The Ombudsman, Nascam, the Council of Churches in Namibia (CCN), the Universal Church and the Seventh Day Adventist Church all contributed to discussions around the bill yesterday, while civilians once again came out in full support of cannabis - urging lawmakers to drop the plant from the list of banned substances in Namibian society.
[/quote]
With the recent issues between 'dogmatic' and 'non-dogmatic' spirituality on these forums in mind, this article raises a question: Why do most churches simply support governments on 'drugs' in the case of cannabis, when it is against the dogmatic principles of their religion?
From their own symbolic system... Christians are supporting Anti-christ when they support the suppression of cannabis.
It would be great if there were a more vigilant ministry of information to churches by Christians who are knowledgeable about the plant and the scriptures. 'Twould be prophetic |
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7295
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| PopeBobtheFirst wrote: |
| With the recent issues between 'dogmatic' and 'non-dogmatic' spirituality on these forums in mind, this article raises a question: Why do most churches simply support governments on 'drugs' in the case of cannabis, when it is against the dogmatic principles of their religion? |
Most so called christians do not know their own adopted rules. They usually know only part of those scriptures - the parts their leaders choose to 'explain' to them. Fact is that the bible demands the killing of those who practise what we do.
That's the reason why 'the churches' support the war on drugs, it's not a coinsidence that the war on drugs targets mostly plants that are regarded as religious sacraments by non christian cultures. Read Deuteronomy 13 and you will see why that is.
Those christians who believe that the use of Cannabis is somehow permitted by their god are the victims of whishful thinking and selective reading. Their leaders know better than that, and that's why they support the determination of 'the old ways' by means of laws against 'drugs'.
The war on drugs is just an extention and a modern day version of the inquisition. Less bloody but with the same effect and results.
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Nachtschattenreich
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 509
Location: Franconia, Germany, Europe, Old World
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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This is great news, open theological debate on Cannabis in a former German colony.
Recently we had the story of the young Lady apparently introduced to the unique herb by a rapist. When the unenlightended churches are concerned about the kids, they have a point because these fates can only be prevented if kids have unprohibited access to responsible adults who can transparently introduce them.
Ferre,
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| Their leaders know better than that, and that's why they support the determination of 'the old ways' by means of laws against 'drugs'. |
show me the Vatican´s signature under the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs. |
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7295
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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The Vatican does not need to put its signature under any document, the big majority of the people who do sign those documents are members of the christian faith, and regard the Vatican as the most high authority on earth. The Vatican has a huge influence on politics all over the world anyway.
During the past years I have read a couple of letters adressed to politicians and written by Bishops, giving those politicians advice for their political agendas, those letters, and I recall at least two different ones, told those politicians that they should uphold the prohibition laws, specially regarding Cannabis and one letter even stated that going against this could result in excommunication.
I have been searching the internet to find something online about that and didn't find anything yet, but there must be some trace somewhere because I did read one of those letters online.
Besides, with all the scientific and historical knowledge about this issue, and knowing that the Vatican has no problem sending out messages to the world to dictate the people how they should behave (think condoms and abortion, to name a few) I have never heard any statement from the Vatican about the great sufferning the drugs wars cause to people all over the world, specially those who regard plants that are targetted as a sacrament of their religion. (although a few induvidual Bishops have been making anti prohibition statements in public during the past years)
Edit: I did find a link that make the position of the Vatican in these issues clear:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc08/smokesignals/popecope.html
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| The Vatican statement, issued by the Pontifical Council for the Family with the approval of the Pope, was clearly issued to sway public opinion in case a referendum takes place. It claims that drugs cannot be divided into hard and soft categories, that all are dangerous and addictive, and that legalizing drugs would be akin to legalizing murder. |
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Nachtschattenreich
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 509
Location: Franconia, Germany, Europe, Old World
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Ferre, if the United Nations General Assembly were to vote on prohibition tomorrow, the vast majority of votes would be controlled by these that demanded the Pope to apologise for the Regensburg speech.
And I did not say that the Vatican currently had a consistent drug policy, I only said that it is not facing the problem of so many nations, who are in a difficulty to explain how it could go unnoticed that the signature under this treaty contradicted their constitutional principles all along.
Your link is ten years old, and while I can think of forced abstinence from everything for everybody only as a totalitarian nightmare, I do agree with the assertion made therein that the soft/hard drug categorisation is nonsensical. My impression is the attitude to Cannabis you do find in the Catholic Church is not one of aggression but one of ignorance.
Just yesterday I read in a local church paper an interview with a priest who said among other things if a kid came to him with the confession that it had smoked hashish, he would reply that he had done so himself in his youth, but would discourage to do so since these days "they" mix so much opium into it. This is the degree of naivité you will find in much of the clerus.
Our Bishops are always good for a scandal these days. I wonder how many of them can use a terminal, how many know to access the Anglosphere, how many are able to saddle their lizard and ride the blogs?
There´s a theory that as soon as one Bishop truly arrived in the information age, he would immediately be braindrained to Rome.
There´s another theory that this has already happened. |
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